[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Sun May 31 03:52:12 UTC 2009 

This is a personal attack, which is forbidden and you are about to 
get yourself thrown off yet another list!

David Andrews, Moderator

At 07:49 PM 5/30/2009, you wrote:
>I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather.  You sound like a
>drugged out adolescent with your energy pathways, meridians and finally,
>"perhaps my energy didn't reach your ears".  Your energy wouldn't reach my
>ears if you were in the house next to mine.  Next, you'll be talking about
>astrological signs.  Grow up you foolish child.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of trishs
>Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:07 PM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>Hey, Schwartz!
>  #1.  When did I "assume that all credible knowledge lies with in
>Western culture.?"
>#2.  I "misapplied the vast body of Eastern wisdom", how?"
>  Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where did I see myself
>disrespectful to Eastern, or Western culture.
>  Being ignorant of customs, I have great respect for Eastern
>wisdom.  Just brushing the surface, through Massage Therapy
>training was one of the most interesting, complicated, and
>difficult things I've ever done.
>  Miss.  chauvinistic, childish, and ignorant hear, never made any
>such claim.  I mentioned the words touch, intension, energy, and
>meridian.  So.  Because you've never heard of a meridian, I don't
>know what I'm talking about?
>  I'd be willing to bet there's an Eastern word for things like
>your defensive name calling.  In Western terms, it's called Get a
>grip!
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:18:49 -0400
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible  knowledge resides
>within
> >Western culture.  It is childish and ignorant to misapply the
>vast body of
> >Eastern wisdom.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >Behalf Of trishs
> >Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
> >To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >Excuse me.  Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've
> >misunderstood them?  Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the
> >thread?  It's possible.  I make mistakes from time to time, too.
> >No worries!
>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
> >>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
> >>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor
> >do you.
>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>Behalf Of trishs
> >>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
> >>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>This applied to the intension of touch.
>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
> >>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
> >>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
> >>touched?  Can you
> >>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
> >>pathway?
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>Behalf Of trishs
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
> >>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
> >>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
> >>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.
>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
> >>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"
>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>>Behalf Of trishs
> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
> >>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
> >>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
> >>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
> >>>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
> >>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
> >>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
> >>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
> >>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
> >>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
> >>>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
> >>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
> >>>>comfort level.
>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
> >>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
> >>>>being touched.
>
> >>>>>Steve
> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
> >>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
> >>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
> >>>>putting
> >>>>>> there hands on us.
> >>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
> >>>>touched, When
> >>>>>> we
> >>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
> >>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
> >>>>this.
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
> >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
> >>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
> >>>>don't
> >>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
> >>>>really don't
> >>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
> >>>>spacial
> >>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
> >>>>during a
> >>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
> >>>>understand this
> >>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
> >>>>trust.
> >>>>>>> \
> >>>>>>> Steve
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
> >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
> >>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
> >>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
> >>>>be
> >>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
> >>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
> >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>>>>>>>Hi,
>
> >>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
> >>>>>>>> sighted
> >>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
> >>>>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
> >>>>>>>> you are
> >>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>
> >>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
> >>>>>>>> It's not
> >>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
> >>>>>>>> means of
> >>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
> >>>>>>>> yurself to
> >>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
> >>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>
> >>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
> >>>>>>>> donw with
> >>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>
> >>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
> >>>>>>>> early
> >>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
> >>>>>>>> there and
> >>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
> >>>>>>>> to the
> >>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
> >>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
> >>>>>>>> ago I
> >>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
> >>>>>>>> handing as
> >>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
> >>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
> >>>>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
> >>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
> >>>>>>>> Maybe
> >>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>
> >>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
> >>>>>>>> my Asian
> >>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
> >>>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>>>>greatful.
>
> >>>>>>>>>Joel
>
> >>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
> >>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
> >>>>>>>> My vision
> >>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
> >>>>>>>> and did not
> >>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
> >>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
> >>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
> >>>>>>>> was often
> >>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
> >>>>>>>> out to shake
> >>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
> >>>>>>>> this problem
> >>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
> >>>>>>>> that the
> >>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
> >>>>>>>> I have had
> >>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
> >>>>>>>> in such
> >>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
> >>>>>>>> what is
> >>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
> >>>>>>>> they stand to
> >>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
> >>>>>>>> is common
> >>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
> >>>>>>>> has led you to
> >>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
> >>>>>>>> felt bad for
> >>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
> >>>>>>>> had
> >>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
> >>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
> >>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
> >>>>>>>> would not do
> >>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
> >>>>>>>> loses their
> >>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
> >>>>>>>> surprised
> >>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
> >>>>>>>> something others can
> >>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
> >>>>>>>> performing these
> >>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
> >>>>>>>> I am walking
> >>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
> >>>>>>>> someone, I
> >>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
> >>>>>>>> suppressing this
> >>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
> >>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
> >>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
> >>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
> >>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
> >>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
> >>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
> >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
> >>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>
> >>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>
> >>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
> >>>>>>>> When do you do
> >>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
> >>>>>>>> necessary, since
> >>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
> >>>>>>>> experienced a
> >>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
> >>>>>>>> away.  Now, if
>
> >>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
> >>>>>>>> still there
>
> >>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
> >>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
> >>>>>>>> and touch my
>
> >>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
> >>>>>>>> unusual.
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cindy
> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
> >>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
> >>>>>>>> on my own
> >>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
> >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
> >>>>>>>> guys,
> >>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
> >>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
> >>>>>>>> RP; since I
> >>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
> >>>>>>>> arm of the
> >>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
> >>>>>>>> to do this
> >>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
> >>>>>>>> behavior isn't
> >>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
> >>>>>>>> by this
> >>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
> >>>>>>>> still there?
> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
> >>>>>>>> if they're
> >>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
> >>>>>>>> in that you
> >>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
> >>>>>>>> happened to
> >>>>>>>>>> some of you?
> >>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
> >>>>>>>> to shake if
> >>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
> >>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
> >>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
> >>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>>>>> info for
> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>
>
> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
> >>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
> >>>>>>>>>> .net
>
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
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>
> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
> >>>>>>>> schwartz%40
> >>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba%
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>
>
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>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
> >>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
>
> >>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>---------------
>
>
>
> >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
> >>>>Date:
> >>>>>>> 05/24/09
> >>>>>>> 07:09:00
>
>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
> >>>>radley%40gmail.com
>
>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> >>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>---------------
>
>
>
> >>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
> >>>>05/26/09
> >>>>>08:53:00
>
>
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>
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>
>
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>signature database 4117 (20090530) __________
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