[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Marion & Martin swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Sun May 31 10:23:21 UTC 2009 

Thank you, David!

Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> This is a personal attack, which is forbidden and you are about to get 
> yourself thrown off yet another list!
>
> David Andrews, Moderator
>
> At 07:49 PM 5/30/2009, you wrote:
>>I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather.  You sound like 
>>a
>>drugged out adolescent with your energy pathways, meridians and finally,
>>"perhaps my energy didn't reach your ears".  Your energy wouldn't reach my
>>ears if you were in the house next to mine.  Next, you'll be talking about
>>astrological signs.  Grow up you foolish child.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:07 PM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>Hey, Schwartz!
>>  #1.  When did I "assume that all credible knowledge lies with in
>>Western culture.?"
>>#2.  I "misapplied the vast body of Eastern wisdom", how?"
>>  Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where did I see myself
>>disrespectful to Eastern, or Western culture.
>>  Being ignorant of customs, I have great respect for Eastern
>>wisdom.  Just brushing the surface, through Massage Therapy
>>training was one of the most interesting, complicated, and
>>difficult things I've ever done.
>>  Miss.  chauvinistic, childish, and ignorant hear, never made any
>>such claim.  I mentioned the words touch, intension, energy, and
>>meridian.  So.  Because you've never heard of a meridian, I don't
>>know what I'm talking about?
>>  I'd be willing to bet there's an Eastern word for things like
>>your defensive name calling.  In Western terms, it's called Get a
>>grip!
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:18:49 -0400
>> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible  knowledge resides
>>within
>> >Western culture.  It is childish and ignorant to misapply the
>>vast body of
>> >Eastern wisdom.
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >Behalf Of trishs
>> >Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
>> >To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >Excuse me.  Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've
>> >misunderstood them?  Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the
>> >thread?  It's possible.  I make mistakes from time to time, too.
>> >No worries!
>>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>> >>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
>> >>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor
>> >do you.
>>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>Behalf Of trishs
>> >>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
>> >>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>This applied to the intension of touch.
>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>> >>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
>> >>touched?  Can you
>> >>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
>> >>pathway?
>> >>>-----Original Message-----
>> >>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>Behalf Of trishs
>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>> >>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
>> >>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>> >>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.
>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>> >>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"
>>
>> >>>>-----Original Message-----
>> >>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>>Behalf Of trishs
>> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>> >>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>> >>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>> >>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
>> >>>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
>> >>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>> >>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
>> >>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>> >>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>> >>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>> >>>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>> >>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>> >>>>comfort level.
>>
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>> >>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>> >>>>being touched.
>>
>> >>>>>Steve
>> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>> >>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>> >>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>> >>>>putting
>> >>>>>> there hands on us.
>> >>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>> >>>>touched, When
>> >>>>>> we
>> >>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>> >>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>> >>>>this.
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>> >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>> >>>>don't
>> >>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>> >>>>really don't
>> >>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>> >>>>spacial
>> >>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>> >>>>during a
>> >>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>> >>>>understand this
>> >>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>> >>>>trust.
>> >>>>>>> \
>> >>>>>>> Steve
>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>> >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>> >>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>> >>>>be
>> >>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>> >>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>> >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>> >>>>>>>> sighted
>> >>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>> >>>>>>>> someone
>> >>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>> >>>>>>>> you are
>> >>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>> >>>>>>>> It's not
>> >>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>> >>>>>>>> means of
>> >>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>> >>>>>>>> yurself to
>> >>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>> >>>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>> >>>>>>>> donw with
>> >>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>> >>>>>>>> early
>> >>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>> >>>>>>>> there and
>> >>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>> >>>>>>>> to the
>> >>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>> >>>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>> >>>>>>>> ago I
>> >>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>> >>>>>>>> handing as
>> >>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. 
>> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>> >>>>>>>> someone
>> >>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. 
>> >>>>>>>>>Proper
>> >>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>> >>>>>>>> Maybe
>> >>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>> >>>>>>>> my Asian
>> >>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>> >>>>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Joel
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>> >>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>> >>>>>>>> My vision
>> >>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 
>> >>>>>>>>>> 27
>> >>>>>>>> and did not
>> >>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was 
>> >>>>>>>>>> about
>> >>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>> >>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>> >>>>>>>> was often
>> >>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was 
>> >>>>>>>>>> reaching
>> >>>>>>>> out to shake
>> >>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to 
>> >>>>>>>>>> avoid
>> >>>>>>>> this problem
>> >>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>> >>>>>>>> that the
>> >>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>> >>>>>>>> I have had
>> >>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural 
>> >>>>>>>>>> differences
>> >>>>>>>> in such
>> >>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>> >>>>>>>> what is
>> >>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>> >>>>>>>> they stand to
>> >>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching 
>> >>>>>>>>>> which
>> >>>>>>>> is common
>> >>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>> >>>>>>>> has led you to
>> >>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>> >>>>>>>> felt bad for
>> >>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the 
>> >>>>>>>>>> person
>> >>>>>>>> had
>> >>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>> >>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>> >>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>> >>>>>>>> would not do
>> >>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>> >>>>>>>> loses their
>> >>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am 
>> >>>>>>>>>> often
>> >>>>>>>> surprised
>> >>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>> >>>>>>>> something others can
>> >>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>> >>>>>>>> performing these
>> >>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that 
>> >>>>>>>>>> when
>> >>>>>>>> I am walking
>> >>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have 
>> >>>>>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>> someone, I
>> >>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>> >>>>>>>> suppressing this
>> >>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>> >>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>> >>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>> >>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>> >>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as 
>> >>>>>>>>>> odd
>> >>>>>>>> or
>> >>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>> >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>> >>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>> >>>>>>>> When do you do
>> >>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>> >>>>>>>> necessary, since
>> >>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>> >>>>>>>> experienced a
>> >>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>> >>>>>>>> away.  Now, if
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure 
>> >>>>>>>>>> they're
>> >>>>>>>> still there
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>> >>>>>>>> something
>> >>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their 
>> >>>>>>>>>> hands
>> >>>>>>>> and touch my
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>> >>>>>>>> unusual.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist 
>> >>>>>>>>>> working
>> >>>>>>>> on my own
>> >>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>> >>>>>>>> guys,
>> >>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with 
>> >>>>>>>>>> blindness.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>> >>>>>>>> RP; since I
>> >>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>> >>>>>>>> arm of the
>> >>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I 
>> >>>>>>>>>> continued
>> >>>>>>>> to do this
>> >>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>> >>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>> >>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still 
>> >>>>>>>>>> shocked
>> >>>>>>>> by this
>> >>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>> >>>>>>>> still there?
>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>> >>>>>>>> if they're
>> >>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this 
>> >>>>>>>>>> situation
>> >>>>>>>> in that you
>> >>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>> >>>>>>>> happened to
>> >>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>> >>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the 
>> >>>>>>>>>> hand
>> >>>>>>>> to shake if
>> >>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>> >>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to 
>> >>>>>>>>>> learn
>> >>>>>>>> about
>> >>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >>>>>>>> info for
>> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>
>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>> >>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>> >>>>>>>>>> .net
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>>> info for
>> >>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>
>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>> >>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>> >>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba%
>> >>>>>>>> 40cavtel.net
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>info for
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>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>> >>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>---------------
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
>> >>>>Date:
>> >>>>>>> 05/24/09
>> >>>>>>> 07:09:00
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>info for
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk:
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>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>> >>>>radley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>> blindtlk:
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>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>> >>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> >>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>---------------
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
>> >>>>05/26/09
>> >>>>>08:53:00
>>
>>
>> >>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>>
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>> >>schwartz%40
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>>
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>>
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