[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
Bryan Schulz
b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Thu Aug 26 04:16:07 UTC 2010
hi,
unfortunately, it wouldn't react as fast and you would hear a crack pop
about the same time as any warning.
people are all glassy eyed about the technology and most are unfamiliar with
actual driving.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Constance Canode" <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>A very good point Ray and I agree with you. Another question is what
>happens when an unexpected patch of black ice comes up. That happens a lot
>here in the cold Wisconsin Winters. There are a lot of unexpected
>occurrences while driving down the road. Rick and I were in a cab one time
>and we just missed a huge rock that flew out of a truck. It just missed
>the window. Luckily the cab driver had good reflexrs, but what would that
>car tell us.
>
> Connie Canode
> At 08:44 PM 8/25/2010, you wrote:
>>And here's another point. Let me speak frankly here. I'm personally all
>>for what the NFB is doing with the blind driver thing; however, there's
>>one very critically important consideration which the advocates of blind
>>driving are overlooking. Let me state this in the form of a question.
>>What will the blind driver do when; (not if mind you but when), the
>>technology fails. Folks, I'm very concerned. Unless I'm missing
>>something here, it looks to me like we're banking almost entirely, (if not
>>totally and completely), upon the technology to get the car we can drive.
>>Y'all, I think this is a very serious mistake!!! Back in my days as a
>>student at the Louisiana Center for the Blind, we were always taught that
>>the technology, while good, was not and is not a panacea; take the slate
>>and stylus over the clunky and heavier Braille writer we all know and love
>>for taking notes for example. For another, take the use of a human reader
>>over the use of the scanner and OCR. The type writer over the
>>computer...need I go on? Point is this. Sooner or later, whether we like
>>it or not, and whether we want to admit it or not, the technology is going
>>to fail. We'd better have it in our heads what we're going to do when
>>that happens. I think it's quite neieve to suppose that this will not
>>happen. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do this; nor, for that matter,
>>am I saying that we shouldn't rely on the technology; but, we're being
>>stupidly neieve if we imagine that total reliance on the technology alone
>>is the best way to get us there. Strong words you say? Well, yes. But,
>>I really do think we're fooling ourselves if we don't seriously consider
>>this point.
>> I suppose that blind kids today have no idea how the blind of
>> past generations did things. How, for example, did we type before
>> computers? How did we check what we were typing and make sure it was
>> correct? Well, we did. That's what correction tape is for. Back then,
>> there were ways of getting those things done; and, we did them. I am a
>> bit concerned that perhaps, with our rush forward in to this, we are or
>> may be overlooking some very important points of basic function here.
>>
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>A Very Proud and Happy Mac User!!!
>>
>>E-Mail:
>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>Skype Name:
>>barefootedray
>>
>>On Aug 25, 2010, at 6:14 PM, Cindy Handel wrote:
>>
>>Yeah, I find it hard to believe that anyone would even suggest that the
>>cost
>>of these cars, should they ever materialize, would go down after the R&D
>>has
>>been recouped.
>>
>>I believe it's a very interesting project. But, if, in a number of years,
>>a
>>car is actually developed and ready to be sold, the next thing we'll have
>>to
>>accomplish, before we can actually drive the thing, is convince insurance
>>companies to insure us. I believe that will be at least as time consuming
>>as producing a car we can drive.
>>
>>Cindy
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>To: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List"
>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>>
>>hi,
>>
>>if you really believe that theory, look how jaws software has never
>>decreased a penny since 1995.
>>
>>Bryan Schulz
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:08 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>>
>> > Bryan,
>> > Though the car is expensive now, perhaps it will not be so much after
>> > the R&D is recouped. In addition, it may not ever be something I will
>> > see
>> > manifested in my lifetime, but perhaps in my blind nephew's lifetime.
>> > Furthermore, as the blind gain the independence that comes from this
>> > sort
>> > of technology, other forms of technology that will level the playing
>> > field
>> > for us may come out of it!
>> >
>> > Fraternally yours,
>> > Marion Gwizdala
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:50 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>> >
>> >
>> >> yea right,
>> >> if she can barely get by now how is she supposed to take an extra
>> >> mortgage to help cover a 75+k car?
>> >> are our heads in the sand?
>> >>
>> >> Bryan Schulz
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> >> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:19 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Hello Mary and everyone,
>> >>>
>> >>> This is exactly why the Blind Driver Challenge is so important and
>> >>> a
>> >>> project to be persued now. If you didn't see it earlier here is the
>> >>> link
>> >>> for
>> >>> the new Blind Driver Challenge Web Site:
>> >>> http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
>> >>>
>> >>> I've all ready linked our chapter Web site to it and will add the
>> >>> link
>> >>> to our home page. What really thrills me is the vast amount of
>> >>> content
>> >>> all
>> >>> ready on the site and not a single page on witch do the words "Coming
>> >>> Soon"
>> >>> appear. Great work Jernigan Institute and NFB!
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Donahue
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Mari Hunziker" <marihunziker at gmail.com>
>> >>> To: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing
>> >>> List"
>> >>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:55 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I have gotten to the point that I would rather sit at home and do
>> >>> nothing
>> >>> than ask someone for a ride. Some people get so frustrated or seem to
>> >>> be
>> >>> bothered by having to help me out sometimes. Yesterday, I paid a
>> >>> friend
>> >>> $30
>> >>> dollars in gas money to drive my son home from school. My 1st grade
>> >>> son,
>> >>> is
>> >>> not eligible to ride the school bus because his elementary school
>> >>> only
>> >>> offers busing to kids with special needs. I asked for special
>> >>> accommodations
>> >>> for our situation and they were not able to help. I paid the my
>> >>> friend
>> >>> because I could not see myself walking 1.75 miles to the school and
>> >>> back
>> >>> another 1.75 miles back in 105 degree heat. I told the district
>> >>> transportation manager that when the heat index is so dangerously hot
>> >>> it
>> >>> should be mandatory that kids get rides home somehow. It breaks my
>> >>> heart
>> >>> that kids have to walk, ride their bike, etc home in that heat. My
>> >>> transportation needs have been met by a kind friend willing to drive
>> >>> out
>> >>> of
>> >>> her way to bring my son home. I was so blessed the last couple of
>> >>> years
>> >>> to
>> >>> have a friend in my neighborhood be willing to carpool with us. My
>> >>> husband
>> >>> drove the kids in the morning and she brought them home after school.
>> >>> It
>> >>> was
>> >>> great. But of course things always change and we (I) must learn to
>> >>> deal
>> >>> with
>> >>> it like I am trying to. I just signed my 2 year old daughter up for
>> >>> Dance
>> >>> class and then called up CARTS to arrange a ride. So happy they can
>> >>> take
>> >>> us
>> >>> and charge us $3 each way. We will see how it goes. I wish visually
>> >>> impaired
>> >>> / blind people received a living expense stipend like they do in
>> >>> Canada.
>> >>> It
>> >>> would be so helpful for those of us living on a budget and for those
>> >>> of
>> >>> us,
>> >>> like myself who live in the suburbs with no public nor para transit
>> >>> system.
>> >>>
>> >>> You all are fabulous. Thanks for all of the words of wisdom posted on
>> >>> here.
>> >>> I love it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mari Hunziker
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Marion Gwizdala
>> >>> <blind411 at verizon.net>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Diane,
>> >>>> I also find it interesting that people are "amazed" that it might
>> >>>> take
>> >>>> us
>> >>>> 2 hours to get somewhere that, by car, only takes 30 minutes. They
>> >>>> also
>> >>>> express concern over how much a taxicab cost. I point out to them
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> get
>> >>>> a lot of work done on my commutes by making telephone calls and
>> >>>> doing
>> >>>> writing. I also share with them the comparitive savings of taxicabs,
>> >>>> when
>> >>>> necessary, and public transportation for regular, everyday needs, as
>> >>>> opposed
>> >>>> to a $300 car payment, $500 insurance payment, $200/month gas
>> >>>> budget,
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> mention tune-ups, oil changes, tires and rotations, etc.
>> >>>> I generally use the public transportation fixed route system for
>> >>>> most
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> my travel needs, Para transit when necessary, and taxicabs for those
>> >>>> times
>> >>>> when neither of those forms of transportation are viable, e.g.
>> >>>> inclement
>> >>>> weather, gigs where I need to take my sound gear, and entertainment
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> gets out after the buses stop running! I guess it's all a matter of
>> >>>> perspective!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fraternally yours,
>> >>>> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane"
>> >>>> <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>> >>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:49 AM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hey Mary,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You know it's funny. Another thing that came to mind after I sent
>> >>>>> my
>> >>>>> post
>> >>>>> was my amazement at how frustrated I've seen some sighted people
>> >>>>> get,
>> >>>>> when
>> >>>>> they have to hop into the driver's seat and take a 15 minute ride
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> their
>> >>>>> car, to go somewhere that they weren't planning to go. Maybe to run
>> >>>>> an
>> >>>>> errand to the grocery store, or go pick up a child, or take a
>> >>>>> child's
>> >>>>> friend
>> >>>>> home. It just blows me away. I'm like "give me a break."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> My sister-in-law is like that. She always wants me to come out into
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> suburbs to her house, but never wants to come into the city to pick
>> >>>>> me
>> >>>>> up
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>> visit me. I'm thinking, "hey lady, you're the one who drives!"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But see, even if you are sighted you get locked into a routine, and
>> >>>>> are
>> >>>>> frustrated by the little unexpected inconveniences that come up.
>> >>>>> Inconveniences that seem almost ridiculous to a blind person who
>> >>>>> would
>> >>>>> love
>> >>>>> to be able to drive independently and take care of some of those
>> >>>>> things
>> >>>>> without the hassle of planning.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Diane Graves
>> >>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> >>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> >>>>> 317-232-2647
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "It is service that measures success."
>> >>>>> George Washington Carver
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> >>>>> confidential
>> >>>>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
>> >>>>> individual
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>> entity(ies)
>> >>>>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> >>>>> be
>> >>>>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>> >>>>> acting
>> >>>>> in reliance
>> >>>>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
>> >>>>> have
>> >>>>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> >>>>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >>>>> On
>> >>>>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:23 AM
>> >>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you Diane and Gary,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Your words of wisdom have left me to ponder about what the Lord has
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> store
>> >>>>> for me as a mother of two wonderful children. I know that I was
>> >>>>> given
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>> opportunity for a reason. I know that being visually impaired will
>> >>>>> only
>> >>>>> enhance my life. Yes, Diane I wish as well that I could spend $1000
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> an
>> >>>>> afternoon and not think twice. Being financially secure does help
>> >>>>> make
>> >>>>> life
>> >>>>> a bit more comfortable but not necessarily happier. It takes a lot
>> >>>>> more
>> >>>>> self
>> >>>>> assurance of oneself to be happy. That is what I think my real
>> >>>>> issue
>> >>>>> is.
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> want to be happy with all that I have. I am most of the time. Its
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>> emotional roller coaster that I don't enjoy riding at times. But
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> most part life is good. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I
>> >>>>> really
>> >>>>> appreciate it.
>> >>>>> Mari Hunziker
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Graves, Diane
>> >>>>> <dgraves at icrc.in.gov>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Mary,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> First, please know that I do understand your feelings and
>> >>>>>> frustrations
>> >>>>>> all
>> >>>>>> too well. I have definitely been there before, and occasionally
>> >>>>>> still
>> >>>>>> go
>> >>>>>> there. I think there was a lot of wisdom to be found in Gary's
>> >>>>>> post,
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> so
>> >>>>>> I'll just second it with a couple of points.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I don't care how well adjusted and accomplished you are as a blind
>> >>>>>> person,
>> >>>>>> there are times when having sight would simply be more convenient.
>> >>>>>> It
>> >>>>>> does
>> >>>>>> get frustrating sometimes. But if you think about it, this is true
>> >>>>>> in
>> >>>>>> many
>> >>>>>> areas of our lives. I often find myself feeling envious of those
>> >>>>>> who
>> >>>>>> can
>> >>>>>> go
>> >>>>>> shopping, spend $1000 in an afternoon, and not think twice about
>> >>>>>> it,
>> >>>>>> while I
>> >>>>>> am struggling to make sure all of the bills are paid. I am
>> >>>>>> frustrated
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> the members of congress charged with making our tax and economic
>> >>>>>> decisions,
>> >>>>>> are the people making more money than most of us will ever see.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am often disgusted by the women who complain and refer to
>> >>>>>> themselves
>> >>>>>> as
>> >>>>>> "fat" because they can't fit into a size 4 dress, when I would
>> >>>>>> give
>> >>>>>> anything
>> >>>>>> to see a size 14 again
>> >>>>>> . These are just some small, maybe silly, examples, but my point
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> blindness is just one of the many frustrations that life has to
>> >>>>>> offer.
>> >>>>>> Life
>> >>>>>> has dealt us all a partial deck of cards, and we just have to
>> >>>>>> learn
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> play
>> >>>>>> the best game we can with the cards that we've been dealt. But, as
>> >>>>>> any
>> >>>>>> skilled card player knows, the more you practice, the more skilled
>> >>>>>> you
>> >>>>>> become.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Just know that while you are concerned about transportation issues
>> >>>>>> where
>> >>>>>> school is concerned, some other mother is agonizing over how she
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>> going
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> get new shoes for her child, or pay for the after school
>> >>>>>> childcare.
>> >>>>>> Another
>> >>>>>> mother is worried about how she is going to get her wayward,
>> >>>>>> rebellious
>> >>>>>> teenager through high school in one piece, and on and on. This is
>> >>>>>> not
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> say that your concerns aren't frustrating and understandable.
>> >>>>>> Please
>> >>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>> think that that is what I am saying at all. I'm just saying that
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> blind
>> >>>>>> community is not the only population that encounters these
>> >>>>>> frustrations.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I hope this makes a little bit of sense, at least. Gary did a much
>> >>>>>> better
>> >>>>>> job than I. If you are able to attend an NFB Training Center I
>> >>>>>> think
>> >>>>>> it
>> >>>>>> would be great for you. It is always something that I wanted to
>> >>>>>> do,
>> >>>>>> but
>> >>>>>> never had the opportunity. All the reports I have heard though
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>> been
>> >>>>>> amazing, and, if nothing else, it would offer you support and
>> >>>>>> build
>> >>>>>> your
>> >>>>>> level of self confidence. I know that having a child would pose
>> >>>>>> concerns
>> >>>>>> in
>> >>>>>> this area too.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Feel free to vent to us any time. We are all here to help you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> (big cyber hug for you)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Diane Graves
>> >>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> >>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> >>>>>> 317-232-2647
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "It is service that measures success."
>> >>>>>> George Washington Carver
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> >>>>>> confidential
>> >>>>>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
>> >>>>>> individual
>> >>>>>> or
>> >>>>>> entity(ies)
>> >>>>>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>> >>>>>> recipient,
>> >>>>>> be
>> >>>>>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>> >>>>>> or
>> >>>>>> acting
>> >>>>>> in reliance
>> >>>>>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> >>>>>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >>>>>> On
>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:13 PM
>> >>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thank you so much for sharing that Mike. I would love to learn
>> >>>>>> more
>> >>>>>> about
>> >>>>>> the NFB centers. I am now needing more assistance in finding
>> >>>>>> creative
>> >>>>>> ways
>> >>>>>> of finding transportation for my son to get to and from school
>> >>>>>> each
>> >>>>>> day.
>> >>>>>> Not
>> >>>>>> being able to drive or to do other things is a constant struggle.
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> wish
>> >>>>>> there was someway to get over the emotional roller coaster I ride
>> >>>>>> every
>> >>>>>> day.
>> >>>>>> Some days thinking its a blessing to be blind and other days it is
>> >>>>>> a
>> >>>>>> curse.
>> >>>>>> How have you all gotten over this?
>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>> Mari Hunziker
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> As a matter of fact, one of the things done at our NFB centers is
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> do
>> >>>>>>> some grilling and other chores that involve working with fire
>> >>>>>>> precisely
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> get people over their fear of being burned. It's not thatanyone
>> >>>>>>> wishes
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>> burned but (a) blindness doesn't increase one's risks assuming
>> >>>>>>> one
>> >>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>> careful and (b) we want to turn that fear into what might be
>> >>>>>>> termed
>> >>>>>> healthy
>> >>>>>>> respect for fire which still allows one to work with it. At the
>> >>>>>>> end
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> day, it becomes another lesson that blindness need not prevent us
>> >>>>>>> from
>> >>>>>>> leading normal lives.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Mike
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews"
>> >>>>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>
>> >>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:22 PM
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> A totally blind person can grill or smoke. i have a gas grill,
>> >>>>>>> and a
>> >>>>>>>> large off-set smoker and use them regularly. I have also
>> >>>>>>>> grilled
>> >>>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>> charcoal -- although the gas grill is easier.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> There are lots of techniques to do stuff. One good source is
>> >>>>>>>> our
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> blind
>> >>>>>>>> cooks list
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-cooks_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Dave
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> p.s. You mentioned a "fear of getting burned." Just like with
>> >>>>>>>> an
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> oven,
>> >>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>> pot of boiling water, a gas stove etc., you can get burned if
>> >>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>> do
>> >>>>>>>> stuff carefully and correctly, but like with the other things
>> >>>>>>>> there
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>>> ways.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> At 08:42 AM 8/24/2010, you wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Was anyone of you grillers afraid of the fire and the potential
>> >>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>> getting
>> >>>>>>>>> burned. That is what keeps me from doing it. We have a charcoal
>> >>>>>>>>> grill/smoker. My brother, father and husband have mastered the
>> >>>>>>>>> great
>> >>>>>>>>> taste
>> >>>>>>>>> of grilled food. I have always thought that I could not grill
>> >>>>>>>>> or
>> >>>>>>>>> do
>> >>>>>>>>> things
>> >>>>>>>>> of that nature because I am blind(visually impaired). I now
>> >>>>>>>>> think
>> >>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>> might
>> >>>>>>>>> just be a fear of getting burned. I do cook fairly well in
>> >>>>>>>>> doors,
>> >>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> never
>> >>>>>>>>> thought about trying it outdoors. The next time we grill out. I
>> >>>>>>>>> will
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>> pay more attention on how it is done so that I may someday try
>> >>>>>>>>> it.
>> >>>>>>>>> Who
>> >>>>>>>>> knows, I may like doing it.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com
>> >>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >>>>>>>> info
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/marihunziker%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40icrc.in.gov
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/marihunziker%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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