[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Sat Aug 28 22:47:56 UTC 2010

Brian:

I submit that DARPA is tackling the self-driving vehicle challenge and 
doesn't need our help.

I submit that self-driving systems including the pod concept are more in the 
realm of eutopian dreams than they are a matter of practical reality. I just 
don't think people are going to give up their ability to drive nor do I 
think the infrastructure to facilitate vast quantities of self-driving 
vehicles will be installed any time soon.

But this is beside the point.

Part of the reason this project is being undertaken is to stretch the 
envelope of what we, the blind, can do. Self-driving vehicles wouldn't 
fulfill that function.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

> These are some great thoughts, Mike, and I would assert that we could say
> the same thing about the car as we do about other techologies  that make
> electronics accessible; we don't need to throw money at it, we could put 
> our
> voices toward the encouragement, perhaps even the insistance, that auto
> manufacturers, universities, NITSA, Dept of Transportation, whatever, for
> the development of cars that drive themselves.
>
> I think the solution is a car that drives itself, as this will potentially
> benefit everyone -- safety, ease of use, management of traffic, reduction 
> of
> energy costs through more controlled speeds, and so on.  Plus this is a
> technology that is much more feasible, and within reach.
>
> My personal belief is that the notion of the car that transports one
> individual from point a to point b is a doomed endeavor and a rediculously
> expensive and excessive use of natural resources, but that's just my own
> long run perspective -- and in the long run, we're all dead, right?
> *smile*.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:47 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
> Right on, Gary.
>
> I think part of the difficulty some of us have wrapping our minds around
> this project is that some of us are more suspicious of the hype than are
> others. I, for one, am loath to make promises I cannot guarantee can be
> fulfilled and I have a hard time with publicity that minimizes the
> difficulties of a project. I suspect there are many like me. Yet, properly
> understood, this project allows us to increase our understanding of the
> limits of current methods of rapid information access and to assess 
> possible
> new methods of such access.
>
> I can certainly understand the feelings of those who feel we should spend
> money on other projects. I presume that decreasing the unemployment rate 
> for
> the blind and fighting for accessible electronic technology would be among
> the projects people would favor spending resources upon. It is 
> questionable,
> however, whether these projects would be helped by more money. I know 
> that's
> counterintuitive in that those of us who do not have much money tend to
> imagine what we would do if we had more. But consider: decreasing our
> unemployment rate is a matter of a war on two fronts: (1) changing 
> societal
> attitudes and (2) increasing the skill base (both in terms of job 
> knowledge
> and of social eptitude) of the blind themselves. I contend that these 
> fronts
> are largely immune to increased monetary stimulus. They are amatter of
> successful propaganda both of society and of ourselves.
>
> With respect to more accessible electronics, our Technology Bill of Rights
> will do more than any infusion of cash from us.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 7:10:14
> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
>>
>>
>> Hello Ray, and all of the people who have contributed thoughtful posts
> here.
>> I think we should acknowledge that driving is a risky proposition as
>> it now stands. I don't know what the statistics are now, but one
>> argument I remember back in the days of the Vietnam war was that we
>> killed more people on our nation's highways every year than we lost in 
>> the
> jungles of Asia.
>> Errors in judgment cost lives. Most of the time people take driving
>> seriously, but there are many distractions which caused drivers to pay
>> less attention to the road than they should. Well-known examples are
>> cellular telephones, checking one's makeup in the mirror, or trying to
>> be the disciplinarian for the children in the back seat.
>>
>> Currently there are airplanes which are designed in such a way that
>> they cannot be flown without the assistance of a computer. They are
>> simply not airworthy unless a computer is constantly adjusting the air
>> foils or surfaces of the plane which come in contact with the air. In
>> these situations, these complicated vehicles aren't run by just one
> computer.
>> There are always multiple computers and coordinating software which is
>> designed both to share the workload and detect the failure of a unit
>> and reassign its tasks. This will certainly be a part of anything we
>> design to be purchasable by blind drivers.
>>
>> There has been significant speculation about the cost of a vehicle we
>> design. It is much too early to know what that cost may be. Part of
>> the equation will depend on how much of what we develop is usable by
>> sighted people. Scanners are cheaper today because they have a
>> marketplace which extends well beyond the blind. The same is true with
>> speech synthesis. The same is not true, however, of screen reading
>> applications, although there are some uses which industry has for what
>> they call screen scraping technology.
>>
>> We have speculated here about who will be able to afford a car
>> modified so we can drive it. I suggest that any society which is
>> willing to spend $6000 on the BrailleNote to make a person more
>> efficient in reading, writing, and taking notes in class or on the job
>> will be very willing to help front some of the costs of a vehicle.
>> This will be true for several reasons. First, there are many jobs
>> which blind people are capable of doing but which are so underserved by
> mass transportation that we do not have access to them.
>> Second, there are many jobs in this economy which directly rely on
>> operating a vehicle. Over the road trucking is a splendid example. My
>> sister currently works for a company delivering parts from one
>> location to the other. If we can begin to get a handle on creating a
>> blind-drivable vehicle, we will open up a wide range of jobs which simply
> aren't practical for us to do today.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some have quite reasonably expressed the concern that developing this
>> vehicle won't automatically mean we are able to drive it, because of
>> current law and the need for insurance. These are important
>> considerations and will pose significant challenges for us, but until
>> we have a vehicle which is really workable, there is no way to take
>> any meaningful action on these fronts. Identifying them as challenges
>> as appropriate. Considering them as reasons not to do the project
>> misses the mark. It is, in transportation terms, putting the cart before
> the horse.
>>
>> Ray, you offer the concern that we are placing too much emphasis on
>> technology. In many respects I agree with you. I think it would be
>> tragic if we decided to no longer teach handwriting because so many
>> devices were readily available for typing or otherwise turning
>> information into text. It is tragic when people who cannot see well
>> enough to read and write print aren't taught to use the slate and
>> stylus. none of this alters the evolving requirement of society that
>> we be able to communicate with each other in ways which older
>> technology will simply not allow. I can't use the Internet with my
>> slate and stylus. I don't miss those days of typing my papers only to
>> realize that my ribbon was poor or that someone had set the typewriter
>> to stencil. I don't for one moment want to go back to the day when the
>> ringing of a telephone would mean losing my train of thought and being
>> unable to go back and determine whether or not I had entered the comma
>> after my last phrase or placed two spaces after the period. I hope we
>> never have to go back to a time where we write three or four drafts of
>> a paper, having each time to start by fully retyping that which was
>> good and altering that which we wanted to change. Wordprocessing has
>> changed our world forever, and I'm glad it allows us to participate in 
>> the
> kind of discussion we're having here.
>>
>> Warmest regards to all,
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
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