[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Mon Aug 30 17:07:12 UTC 2010

Hi again,

Just an addendum to my last message. In the far distant past, I'm almost positive they wouldn't do this today, I've even had voc rehab purchase clothing which would be more appropriate for a job interview than what I had to wear at the time. A sighted person would have had to go with what they had or find another way to get it.

Other than training that is specifically related to blindness, such as orientation and mobility, or  other blindness skills training, aren't' we taking perks if we accept any of the extras? What do others think?

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Graves, Diane
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:52 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Hi Mike,

You  make a really good point, and what you are saying does make sense. But on the other hand, this has always drawn a very confusing and crooked line for me. Maybe you can help put things in perspective.

For instance, sighted kids going to college don't get any of their education paid for by Voc. Rehab. Blind people do, or did. Mind you I have been out of the Voc. Rehab system for many years, and am struggling to be reinstated now that I am back in school because I have a job. Anyway, blind people used to get expenses paid through VR, regardless of how much money their parents made Etc. Sighted people don't get that. Do you know what I mean? If they need a laptop, they have to find another way to get it, and the list could go on.

Blind people who are unemployed, and can't find a job, although they are doing everything they know to do, cannot get SSI. There are just a number of things like that.

So, where do you draw the line? Where do you say "no extra accommodations or treatment? Does that make sense? My intent is not to argue with you, because I completely understand what you are saying. But this is really confusing to me. Can it really ever be an "either or" situation?

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:47 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Again, with respect, I disagree. If We truly believe that, with some exceptions, we, the blind, can function in the world as it is and that it is not up to others to accommodate us (again, with some exceptions), we cannot expect others to do things for us when it's convenient and allow us to do for ourselves when we want that. Diane's safety argument may well have merit but this is different than asking for an exception to transportation policy because we are having difficulties.
Many here have made great suggestions. I have seldom encountered a situation like this that couldn't be solved with a bit of ingenuity and imagination.

But we don't walk in your shoes, Mari, so all we can do is voice opinions and offer advice and encouragement.

Mike Freeman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Date: Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 6:23:02
Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

>
>
> Hi Mary,
>
> You might want to push the decision of the school not to provide bus transportation to your son. He may not have special needs, but his mother does. Granted they may look at it as not being required to provide accommodations to you, but if it involves getting him to school, I would say that the two are interlinked. You might check with the education board, or your local civil rights agency.
>
> Personally, though this next comment isn't necessarily blindness related, I think that, in the day and time that we live in, and all of the people out there which are a threat to child safety, a refusal to provide safe transit for all of the children is an extremely callused and irresponsible thing for the school to do.
>
> But anyway, you may want to consider challenging their decision not to help you.
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:55 PM
> To: Marion Gwizdala; Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
> I have gotten to the point that I would rather sit at home and do nothing
> than ask someone for a ride. Some people get so frustrated or seem to be
> bothered by having to help me out sometimes. Yesterday, I paid a friend $30
> dollars in gas money to drive my son home from school. My 1st grade son, is
> not eligible to ride the school bus because his elementary school only
> offers busing to kids with special needs. I asked for special accommodations
> for our situation and they were not able to help. I paid the my friend
> because I could not see myself walking 1.75 miles to the school and back
> another 1.75 miles back in 105 degree heat. I told the district
> transportation manager that when the heat index is so dangerously hot it
> should be mandatory that kids get rides home somehow. It breaks my heart
> that kids have to walk, ride their bike, etc home in that heat. My
> transportation needs have been met by a kind friend willing to drive out of
> her way to bring my son home. I was so blessed the last couple of years to
> have a friend in my neighborhood be willing to carpool with us. My husband
> drove the kids in the morning and she brought them home after school. It was
> great. But of course things always change and we (I) must learn to deal with
> it like I am trying to. I just signed my 2 year old daughter up for Dance
> class and then called up CARTS to arrange a ride. So happy they can take us
> and charge us $3 each way. We will see how it goes. I wish visually impaired
> / blind people received a living expense stipend like they do in Canada. It
> would be so helpful for those of us living on a budget and for those of us,
> like myself who live in the suburbs  with no public nor para transit system.
>
> You all are fabulous. Thanks for all of the words of wisdom posted on here.
> I love it.
>
> Mari Hunziker
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net>wrote:
>
> > Diane,
> >   I also find it interesting that people are "amazed" that it might take us
> > 2 hours to get somewhere that, by car, only takes 30 minutes. They also
> > express concern over how much a taxicab cost. I point out to them that I get
> > a lot of work done on my commutes by making telephone calls and doing
> > writing. I also share with them the comparitive savings of taxicabs, when
> > necessary, and public transportation for regular, everyday needs, as opposed
> > to a $300 car payment, $500 insurance payment, $200/month gas budget, not to
> > mention tune-ups, oil changes, tires and rotations, etc.
> >   I generally use the public transportation fixed route system for most of
> > my travel needs, Para transit when necessary, and taxicabs for those times
> > when neither of those forms of transportation are viable, e.g. inclement
> > weather, gigs where I need to take my sound gear, and entertainment that
> > gets out after the buses stop running! I guess it's all a matter of
> > perspective!
> >
> > Fraternally yours,
> > Marion Gwizdala
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> > To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
> >
> >
> >  Hey Mary,
> >ar
> >ar You know it's funny. Another thing that came to mind after I sent my post
> >ar was my amazement at how frustrated I've seen some sighted people get, when
> >ar they have to hop into the driver's seat and take a 15 minute ride in their
> >ar car, to go somewhere that they weren't planning to go. Maybe to run an
> >ar errand to the grocery store, or go pick up a child, or take a child's friend
> >ar home. It just blows me away. I'm like "give me a break."
> >ar
> >ar My sister-in-law is like that. She always wants me to come out into the
> >ar suburbs to her house, but never wants to come into the city to pick me up or
> >ar visit me.  I'm thinking, "hey lady, you're the one who drives!"
> >ar
> >ar But see, even if you are sighted you get locked into a routine, and are
> >ar frustrated by the little unexpected inconveniences that come up.
> >ar Inconveniences that seem almost ridiculous to a blind person who would love
> >ar to be able to drive independently and take care of some of those things
> >ar without the  hassle of planning.
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar Diane Graves
> >ar Civil Rights Specialist
> >ar Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> >ar Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> >ar 317-232-2647
> >ar
> >ar "It is service that measures success."
> >ar George Washington Carver
> >ar
> >ar Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
> >ar and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
> >ar entity(ies)
> >ar named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> >ar advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
> >ar in reliance
> >ar upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> >ar received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> >ar arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> >ar Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> >ar
> >ar -----Original Message-----
> >ar From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >ar Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
> >ar Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:23 AM
> >ar To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >ar Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
> >ar
> >ar Thank you Diane and Gary,
> >ar
> >ar Your words of wisdom have left me to ponder about what the Lord has in
> >ar store
> >ar for me as a mother of two wonderful children. I know that I was given this
> >ar opportunity for a reason. I know that being visually impaired will only
> >ar enhance my life. Yes, Diane I wish as well that I could spend $1000 in an
> >ar afternoon and not think twice. Being financially secure does help make
> >ar life
> >ar a bit more comfortable but not necessarily happier. It takes a lot more
> >ar self
> >ar assurance of oneself to be happy. That is what I think my real issue is. I
> >ar want to be happy with all that I have. I am most of the time. Its that
> >ar emotional roller coaster that I don't enjoy riding at times. But for the
> >ar most part life is good. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I really
> >ar appreciate it.
> >ar Mari Hunziker
> >ar
> >ar On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Graves, Diane <dgraves at icrc.in.gov>
> >ar wrote:
> >ar
> >ar  Hi Mary,
> >>>
> >>> First, please know that I do understand your feelings and frustrations
> >>> all
> >>> too well. I have definitely been there before, and occasionally still go
> >>> there. I think there was a lot of wisdom to be found in Gary's post, and
> >>> so
> >>> I'll just second it with a couple of points.
> >>>
> >>> I don't care how well adjusted and accomplished you are as a blind
> >>> person,
> >>> there are times when having sight would simply be more convenient. It
> >>> does
> >>> get frustrating sometimes. But if you think about it, this is true in
> >>> many
> >>> areas of our lives. I often find myself feeling envious of those who  can
> >>> go
> >>> shopping, spend $1000 in an afternoon, and not think twice about it,
> >>> while I
> >>> am struggling to make sure all of the bills are paid. I am frustrated
> >>> that
> >>> the members of congress charged with making our tax and economic
> >>> decisions,
> >>> are the people making more money than most of us will ever see.
> >>>
> >>>  I am often disgusted by the women who complain and refer to themselves
> >>> as
> >>> "fat" because they can't fit into a size 4 dress, when I would give
> >>> anything
> >>> to see a size 14 again
> >>> .  These are just some small, maybe silly, examples, but my point is that
> >>> blindness is just one of the many frustrations that life has to offer.
> >>> Life
> >>> has dealt us all a partial deck of cards, and we just have to learn to
> >>> play
> >>> the best game we can with the cards that we've been dealt. But, as any
> >>> skilled card player knows, the more you practice, the more skilled you
> >>> become.
> >>>
> >>> Just know that while you are concerned about transportation issues where
> >>> school is concerned, some other mother is agonizing over how she is going
> >>> to
> >>> get new shoes for her child, or pay for the after school childcare.
> >>> Another
> >>> mother is worried about how she is going to get her wayward, rebellious
> >>> teenager through high school in one piece, and on and on.  This is not to
> >>> say that your concerns aren't frustrating and understandable. Please
> >>> don't
> >>> think that that is what I am saying at all. I'm just saying that the
> >>> blind
> >>> community is not the only population that encounters these frustrations.
> >>>
> >>> I hope this makes a little bit of sense, at least. Gary did a much better
> >>> job than I. If you are able to attend an  NFB Training Center I think it
> >>> would be great for you. It is always something that I wanted to do, but
> >>> never had the opportunity.  All the reports I have heard though have been
> >>> amazing, and, if nothing else, it would offer you support and build your
> >>> level of self confidence. I know that having a child would pose concerns
> >>> in
> >>> this area too.
> >>>
> >>> Feel free to vent to us any time. We are all here to help you.
> >>>
> >>> (big cyber hug for you)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Diane Graves
> >>> Civil Rights Specialist
> >>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> >>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> >>> 317-232-2647
> >>>
> >>> "It is service that measures success."
> >>> George Washington Carver
> >>>
> >>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
> >>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
> >>> entity(ies)
> >>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> >>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> >>> acting
> >>> in reliance
> >>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> >>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> >>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> >>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >>> On
> >>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:13 PM
> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
> >>>
> >>> Thank you so much for sharing that Mike. I would love to learn more about
> >>> the NFB centers. I am now needing more assistance in finding creative
> >>> ways
> >>> of finding transportation for my son to get to and from school each day.
> >>> Not
> >>> being able to drive or to do other things is a constant struggle. I wish
> >>> there was someway to get over the emotional roller coaster I ride every
> >>> day.
> >>> Some days thinking its a blessing to be blind and other days it is a
> >>> curse.
> >>> How have you all gotten over this?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Mari Hunziker
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > As a matter of fact, one of the things done at our NFB centers is to do
> >>> > some grilling and other chores that involve working with fire precisely
> >>> to
> >>> > get people over their fear of being burned. It's not thatanyone wishes
> >>> > to
> >>> be
> >>> > burned but (a) blindness doesn't increase one's risks assuming one is
> >>> > careful and (b) we want to turn that fear into what might be termed
> >>> healthy
> >>> > respect for fire which still allows one to work with it. At the end of
> >>> the
> >>> > day, it becomes another lesson that blindness need not prevent us from
> >>> > leading normal lives.
> >>> >
> >>> > Mike
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> >>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:22 PM
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >  A totally blind person can grill or smoke.  i have a gas grill, and a
> >>> >ar large off-set smoker and use them regularly.  I have also grilled with
> >>> >ar charcoal -- although the gas grill is easier.
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar There are lots of techniques to do stuff.  One good source is our >ar
> >>> blind
> >>> >ar cooks list
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-cooks_nfbnet.org
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar Dave
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar p.s.  You mentioned a "fear of getting burned."  Just like with an >ar
> >>> oven,
> >>> a
> >>> >ar pot of boiling water, a gas stove etc., you can get burned if you >ar
> >>> don't
> >>> do
> >>> >ar stuff carefully and correctly, but like with the other things there >ar
> >>> are
> >>> >ar ways.
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar At 08:42 AM 8/24/2010, you wrote:
> >>> >ar
> >>> >>> Was anyone of you grillers afraid of the fire and the potential for
> >>> >>> getting
> >>> >>> burned. That is what keeps me from doing it. We have a charcoal
> >>> >>> grill/smoker. My brother, father and husband have mastered the great
> >>> >>> taste
> >>> >>> of grilled food. I have always thought that I could not grill or do
> >>> >>> things
> >>> >>> of that nature because I am blind(visually impaired). I now think it
> >>> >>> might
> >>> >>> just be a fear of getting burned. I do cook fairly well in doors, I
> >>> never
> >>> >>> thought about trying it outdoors. The next time we grill out. I will
> >>> have
> >>> >>> to
> >>> >>> pay more attention on how it is done so that I may someday try it.
> >>> >>> Who
> >>> >>> knows, I may like doing it.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar                        David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
> >>> >ar Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar _______________________________________________
> >>> >ar bltlk mailing list
> >>> >ar blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> >ar bltlk:
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar
> >>>
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> >>> >ar
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
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> >>> >
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> >>>  _______________________________________________
> >ar bltlk mailing list
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> >ar _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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