[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Tue Aug 31 02:52:10 UTC 2010
Society has specifically decided that it should fund efforts to render the
blind employable and make them tax-payers rather than tax-takers.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
> Hi again,
>
> Just an addendum to my last message. In the far distant past, I'm almost
> positive they wouldn't do this today, I've even had voc rehab purchase
> clothing which would be more appropriate for a job interview than what I
> had to wear at the time. A sighted person would have had to go with what
> they had or find another way to get it.
>
> Other than training that is specifically related to blindness, such as
> orientation and mobility, or other blindness skills training, aren't' we
> taking perks if we accept any of the extras? What do others think?
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Graves, Diane
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:52 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> You make a really good point, and what you are saying does make sense.
> But on the other hand, this has always drawn a very confusing and crooked
> line for me. Maybe you can help put things in perspective.
>
> For instance, sighted kids going to college don't get any of their
> education paid for by Voc. Rehab. Blind people do, or did. Mind you I have
> been out of the Voc. Rehab system for many years, and am struggling to be
> reinstated now that I am back in school because I have a job. Anyway,
> blind people used to get expenses paid through VR, regardless of how much
> money their parents made Etc. Sighted people don't get that. Do you know
> what I mean? If they need a laptop, they have to find another way to get
> it, and the list could go on.
>
> Blind people who are unemployed, and can't find a job, although they are
> doing everything they know to do, cannot get SSI. There are just a number
> of things like that.
>
> So, where do you draw the line? Where do you say "no extra accommodations
> or treatment? Does that make sense? My intent is not to argue with you,
> because I completely understand what you are saying. But this is really
> confusing to me. Can it really ever be an "either or" situation?
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
> entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
> in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:47 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
> Again, with respect, I disagree. If We truly believe that, with some
> exceptions, we, the blind, can function in the world as it is and that it
> is not up to others to accommodate us (again, with some exceptions), we
> cannot expect others to do things for us when it's convenient and allow us
> to do for ourselves when we want that. Diane's safety argument may well
> have merit but this is different than asking for an exception to
> transportation policy because we are having difficulties.
> Many here have made great suggestions. I have seldom encountered a
> situation like this that couldn't be solved with a bit of ingenuity and
> imagination.
>
> But we don't walk in your shoes, Mari, so all we can do is voice opinions
> and offer advice and encouragement.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 6:23:02
> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Mary,
>>
>> You might want to push the decision of the school not to provide bus
>> transportation to your son. He may not have special needs, but his mother
>> does. Granted they may look at it as not being required to provide
>> accommodations to you, but if it involves getting him to school, I would
>> say that the two are interlinked. You might check with the education
>> board, or your local civil rights agency.
>>
>> Personally, though this next comment isn't necessarily blindness related,
>> I think that, in the day and time that we live in, and all of the people
>> out there which are a threat to child safety, a refusal to provide safe
>> transit for all of the children is an extremely callused and
>> irresponsible thing for the school to do.
>>
>> But anyway, you may want to consider challenging their decision not to
>> help you.
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "It is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
>> entity(ies)
>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>> acting in reliance
>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:55 PM
>> To: Marion Gwizdala; Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>> I have gotten to the point that I would rather sit at home and do nothing
>> than ask someone for a ride. Some people get so frustrated or seem to be
>> bothered by having to help me out sometimes. Yesterday, I paid a friend
>> $30
>> dollars in gas money to drive my son home from school. My 1st grade son,
>> is
>> not eligible to ride the school bus because his elementary school only
>> offers busing to kids with special needs. I asked for special
>> accommodations
>> for our situation and they were not able to help. I paid the my friend
>> because I could not see myself walking 1.75 miles to the school and back
>> another 1.75 miles back in 105 degree heat. I told the district
>> transportation manager that when the heat index is so dangerously hot it
>> should be mandatory that kids get rides home somehow. It breaks my heart
>> that kids have to walk, ride their bike, etc home in that heat. My
>> transportation needs have been met by a kind friend willing to drive out
>> of
>> her way to bring my son home. I was so blessed the last couple of years
>> to
>> have a friend in my neighborhood be willing to carpool with us. My
>> husband
>> drove the kids in the morning and she brought them home after school. It
>> was
>> great. But of course things always change and we (I) must learn to deal
>> with
>> it like I am trying to. I just signed my 2 year old daughter up for Dance
>> class and then called up CARTS to arrange a ride. So happy they can take
>> us
>> and charge us $3 each way. We will see how it goes. I wish visually
>> impaired
>> / blind people received a living expense stipend like they do in Canada.
>> It
>> would be so helpful for those of us living on a budget and for those of
>> us,
>> like myself who live in the suburbs with no public nor para transit
>> system.
>>
>> You all are fabulous. Thanks for all of the words of wisdom posted on
>> here.
>> I love it.
>>
>> Mari Hunziker
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Marion Gwizdala
>> <blind411 at verizon.net>wrote:
>>
>> > Diane,
>> > I also find it interesting that people are "amazed" that it might
>> > take us
>> > 2 hours to get somewhere that, by car, only takes 30 minutes. They also
>> > express concern over how much a taxicab cost. I point out to them that
>> > I get
>> > a lot of work done on my commutes by making telephone calls and doing
>> > writing. I also share with them the comparitive savings of taxicabs,
>> > when
>> > necessary, and public transportation for regular, everyday needs, as
>> > opposed
>> > to a $300 car payment, $500 insurance payment, $200/month gas budget,
>> > not to
>> > mention tune-ups, oil changes, tires and rotations, etc.
>> > I generally use the public transportation fixed route system for most
>> > of
>> > my travel needs, Para transit when necessary, and taxicabs for those
>> > times
>> > when neither of those forms of transportation are viable, e.g.
>> > inclement
>> > weather, gigs where I need to take my sound gear, and entertainment
>> > that
>> > gets out after the buses stop running! I guess it's all a matter of
>> > perspective!
>> >
>> > Fraternally yours,
>> > Marion Gwizdala
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane"
>> > <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>> > To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:49 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey Mary,
>> >ar
>> >ar You know it's funny. Another thing that came to mind after I sent my
>> >post
>> >ar was my amazement at how frustrated I've seen some sighted people get,
>> >when
>> >ar they have to hop into the driver's seat and take a 15 minute ride in
>> >their
>> >ar car, to go somewhere that they weren't planning to go. Maybe to run
>> >an
>> >ar errand to the grocery store, or go pick up a child, or take a child's
>> >friend
>> >ar home. It just blows me away. I'm like "give me a break."
>> >ar
>> >ar My sister-in-law is like that. She always wants me to come out into
>> >the
>> >ar suburbs to her house, but never wants to come into the city to pick
>> >me up or
>> >ar visit me. I'm thinking, "hey lady, you're the one who drives!"
>> >ar
>> >ar But see, even if you are sighted you get locked into a routine, and
>> >are
>> >ar frustrated by the little unexpected inconveniences that come up.
>> >ar Inconveniences that seem almost ridiculous to a blind person who
>> >would love
>> >ar to be able to drive independently and take care of some of those
>> >things
>> >ar without the hassle of planning.
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar Diane Graves
>> >ar Civil Rights Specialist
>> >ar Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >ar Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> >ar 317-232-2647
>> >ar
>> >ar "It is service that measures success."
>> >ar George Washington Carver
>> >ar
>> >ar Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> >confidential
>> >ar and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
>> >individual or
>> >ar entity(ies)
>> >ar named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> >be
>> >ar advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>> >acting
>> >ar in reliance
>> >ar upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> >ar received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> >ar arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> >ar Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> >ar
>> >ar -----Original Message-----
>> >ar From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >ar Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> >ar Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:23 AM
>> >ar To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >ar Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >ar
>> >ar Thank you Diane and Gary,
>> >ar
>> >ar Your words of wisdom have left me to ponder about what the Lord has
>> >in
>> >ar store
>> >ar for me as a mother of two wonderful children. I know that I was given
>> >this
>> >ar opportunity for a reason. I know that being visually impaired will
>> >only
>> >ar enhance my life. Yes, Diane I wish as well that I could spend $1000
>> >in an
>> >ar afternoon and not think twice. Being financially secure does help
>> >make
>> >ar life
>> >ar a bit more comfortable but not necessarily happier. It takes a lot
>> >more
>> >ar self
>> >ar assurance of oneself to be happy. That is what I think my real issue
>> >is. I
>> >ar want to be happy with all that I have. I am most of the time. Its
>> >that
>> >ar emotional roller coaster that I don't enjoy riding at times. But for
>> >the
>> >ar most part life is good. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I really
>> >ar appreciate it.
>> >ar Mari Hunziker
>> >ar
>> >ar On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Graves, Diane <dgraves at icrc.in.gov>
>> >ar wrote:
>> >ar
>> >ar Hi Mary,
>> >>>
>> >>> First, please know that I do understand your feelings and
>> >>> frustrations
>> >>> all
>> >>> too well. I have definitely been there before, and occasionally still
>> >>> go
>> >>> there. I think there was a lot of wisdom to be found in Gary's post,
>> >>> and
>> >>> so
>> >>> I'll just second it with a couple of points.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't care how well adjusted and accomplished you are as a blind
>> >>> person,
>> >>> there are times when having sight would simply be more convenient. It
>> >>> does
>> >>> get frustrating sometimes. But if you think about it, this is true in
>> >>> many
>> >>> areas of our lives. I often find myself feeling envious of those who
>> >>> can
>> >>> go
>> >>> shopping, spend $1000 in an afternoon, and not think twice about it,
>> >>> while I
>> >>> am struggling to make sure all of the bills are paid. I am frustrated
>> >>> that
>> >>> the members of congress charged with making our tax and economic
>> >>> decisions,
>> >>> are the people making more money than most of us will ever see.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am often disgusted by the women who complain and refer to
>> >>> themselves
>> >>> as
>> >>> "fat" because they can't fit into a size 4 dress, when I would give
>> >>> anything
>> >>> to see a size 14 again
>> >>> . These are just some small, maybe silly, examples, but my point is
>> >>> that
>> >>> blindness is just one of the many frustrations that life has to
>> >>> offer.
>> >>> Life
>> >>> has dealt us all a partial deck of cards, and we just have to learn
>> >>> to
>> >>> play
>> >>> the best game we can with the cards that we've been dealt. But, as
>> >>> any
>> >>> skilled card player knows, the more you practice, the more skilled
>> >>> you
>> >>> become.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just know that while you are concerned about transportation issues
>> >>> where
>> >>> school is concerned, some other mother is agonizing over how she is
>> >>> going
>> >>> to
>> >>> get new shoes for her child, or pay for the after school childcare.
>> >>> Another
>> >>> mother is worried about how she is going to get her wayward,
>> >>> rebellious
>> >>> teenager through high school in one piece, and on and on. This is
>> >>> not to
>> >>> say that your concerns aren't frustrating and understandable. Please
>> >>> don't
>> >>> think that that is what I am saying at all. I'm just saying that the
>> >>> blind
>> >>> community is not the only population that encounters these
>> >>> frustrations.
>> >>>
>> >>> I hope this makes a little bit of sense, at least. Gary did a much
>> >>> better
>> >>> job than I. If you are able to attend an NFB Training Center I think
>> >>> it
>> >>> would be great for you. It is always something that I wanted to do,
>> >>> but
>> >>> never had the opportunity. All the reports I have heard though have
>> >>> been
>> >>> amazing, and, if nothing else, it would offer you support and build
>> >>> your
>> >>> level of self confidence. I know that having a child would pose
>> >>> concerns
>> >>> in
>> >>> this area too.
>> >>>
>> >>> Feel free to vent to us any time. We are all here to help you.
>> >>>
>> >>> (big cyber hug for you)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Diane Graves
>> >>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> >>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> >>> 317-232-2647
>> >>>
>> >>> "It is service that measures success."
>> >>> George Washington Carver
>> >>>
>> >>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> >>> confidential
>> >>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
>> >>> individual or
>> >>> entity(ies)
>> >>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> >>> be
>> >>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>> >>> acting
>> >>> in reliance
>> >>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> >>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> >>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> >>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >>> On
>> >>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:13 PM
>> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you so much for sharing that Mike. I would love to learn more
>> >>> about
>> >>> the NFB centers. I am now needing more assistance in finding creative
>> >>> ways
>> >>> of finding transportation for my son to get to and from school each
>> >>> day.
>> >>> Not
>> >>> being able to drive or to do other things is a constant struggle. I
>> >>> wish
>> >>> there was someway to get over the emotional roller coaster I ride
>> >>> every
>> >>> day.
>> >>> Some days thinking its a blessing to be blind and other days it is a
>> >>> curse.
>> >>> How have you all gotten over this?
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Mari Hunziker
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > As a matter of fact, one of the things done at our NFB centers is
>> >>> > to do
>> >>> > some grilling and other chores that involve working with fire
>> >>> > precisely
>> >>> to
>> >>> > get people over their fear of being burned. It's not thatanyone
>> >>> > wishes
>> >>> > to
>> >>> be
>> >>> > burned but (a) blindness doesn't increase one's risks assuming one
>> >>> > is
>> >>> > careful and (b) we want to turn that fear into what might be termed
>> >>> healthy
>> >>> > respect for fire which still allows one to work with it. At the end
>> >>> > of
>> >>> the
>> >>> > day, it becomes another lesson that blindness need not prevent us
>> >>> > from
>> >>> > leading normal lives.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Mike
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews"
>> >>> > <dandrews at visi.com>
>> >>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:22 PM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A totally blind person can grill or smoke. i have a gas grill,
>> >>> > and a
>> >>> >ar large off-set smoker and use them regularly. I have also grilled
>> >>> >with
>> >>> >ar charcoal -- although the gas grill is easier.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar There are lots of techniques to do stuff. One good source is our
>> >>> > >ar
>> >>> blind
>> >>> >ar cooks list
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-cooks_nfbnet.org
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar Dave
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar p.s. You mentioned a "fear of getting burned." Just like with
>> >>> >an >ar
>> >>> oven,
>> >>> a
>> >>> >ar pot of boiling water, a gas stove etc., you can get burned if you
>> >>> > >ar
>> >>> don't
>> >>> do
>> >>> >ar stuff carefully and correctly, but like with the other things
>> >>> >there >ar
>> >>> are
>> >>> >ar ways.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar At 08:42 AM 8/24/2010, you wrote:
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >>> Was anyone of you grillers afraid of the fire and the potential
>> >>> >>> for
>> >>> >>> getting
>> >>> >>> burned. That is what keeps me from doing it. We have a charcoal
>> >>> >>> grill/smoker. My brother, father and husband have mastered the
>> >>> >>> great
>> >>> >>> taste
>> >>> >>> of grilled food. I have always thought that I could not grill or
>> >>> >>> do
>> >>> >>> things
>> >>> >>> of that nature because I am blind(visually impaired). I now think
>> >>> >>> it
>> >>> >>> might
>> >>> >>> just be a fear of getting burned. I do cook fairly well in doors,
>> >>> >>> I
>> >>> never
>> >>> >>> thought about trying it outdoors. The next time we grill out. I
>> >>> >>> will
>> >>> have
>> >>> >>> to
>> >>> >>> pay more attention on how it is done so that I may someday try
>> >>> >>> it.
>> >>> >>> Who
>> >>> >>> knows, I may like doing it.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com
>> >>> >ar Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >>> >ar bltlk mailing list
>> >>> >ar blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>> >>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> >for
>> >>> >ar bltlk:
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>> >
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>> >ar _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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