[Blindtlk] Travel, Drivers, and canes

Mon Jun 7 22:46:14 UTC 2010

Audible signals are *not* the be-all, end-all solution. Drivers do
*not* listen to them. many of them have their music cranked up to the
point that they likely won't hear anything quieter than a blasting
horn, and some can't even hear that! Audible signals do *not* alert
drivers to pedestrians. I know this from experience, as there are many
audible signals in my area.

That being said, audible signals *do* alert *pedestrians* to when the
light is in their favour. It can catch a pedestrian''s attention,
telling them (basically) "Ok, now's the time to listen carefully."
Notice I said "listen carefully" not "cross." I have learned that when
the audible signal chirps/cuckoos, that is my time to listen to the
traffic for turning cars and make sure the traffic is parallel. The
audible signal allows me to chat, talk on the phone, listen to birds,
or do whatever I want while waiting. The audible signal will alert me
to when the light is in my favour, so then I listen to the traffic
again. I have scolded my boyfriend, also legally blind, many times
because he can see the traffic light sometimes. When he can see it, he
watches the light and goes when there is a red light...but hello, what
about the turning signal, the right-turners, and people blasting
through a red light? He is learning to listen more to traffic, and
also to go when the audible signal *and* the traffic tell him it is
his turn.

Audible signals may not be the be-all, end-all solution (they are
certainly not that!!), but I support the use of audible signals at
strategic intersections. The intersections I think are strategic?
Well...1) intersections where there is a lot of traffic in one
direction, but very little traffic in the other, 2) intersections
where there is a lot of traffic sometimes, but big lolls in traffic at
other times, giving a pedestrian a false security to cross (against
the light, in many instances), 3) most T-intersections, where traffic
flows in one direction and there are a lot of turning vehicles, 4)
intersections that have confusing traffic patterns, especially those
that include a seemingly-random turning-signal pattern, 5)
intersections at which the light rarely turns in faavour of traffic in
one direction and the pedestrian needs to press the crossing signal in
order to get a light in their favour, and finally, 6) all
round-abouts! Round-abouts are confusing and often the only chance a
pedestrian has to cross in a round-about (traffic circle) is with a
pedestrian crossing signal, which the pedestrian may or may not know
has turned in their favour.

I hope this makes sense. I do not think an audible signal should be at
every intersection. As you can see from my six determinates, many
intersections should have an audible, particularly those that are busy
sometimes and not busy at other times. However, there are many
intersections that constant traffic patterns, easy-to-detect light
changes, a lot of pedestrian traffic that's easy to follow, or another
sort of traffic determinate. Then there are the intersections
that...like, never have traffic...why would we want an audible signal
at an intersection where we know there's no traffic and everyone has
to go 25 or 30 miles per hour so you have plenty of time to hear
them?? That would be such a waste of money and resources, and would be
just one reason for a city to deny an audible signal to someone who
really needed it, the waste of time, money, and resources.

My two cents on the topic,
Jewel
Raleigh, North Carolina

On 6/7/10, Bonnie Lucas <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com> wrote:
> My experience with sighted folks, and I have had plenty, (laugh) is that
> when they are looking, they generally aren't listening. The beeping things
> are for blind folks. If you have small children, I would personally think
> twice about taking them across truly questionable intersections. There just
> isn't a simple answer when the bad intersection is out of your subdevision
> and everything you want to go to is on the other side of that intersection.
> I believe that someone else mentioned that sighted people probably don't
> even cross it. Perhaps because it is such a short distance, you might
> consider getting a cab just to get you across to the shopping. It might be
> worth the expense.
> Best of luck.
> Bonnie Lucas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Travel, Drivers, and canes
>
>
>> Because no one cares about what's around them, and we can't hear when
>> someone runns the light, witch they do all the time.
>> We just whent around with someone on this list a week ago, you can hear
>> the cars, and can tell when it is clear to cross then.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mari Hunziker" <marihunziker at gmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 8:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Travel, Drivers, and canes
>>
>>
>>> Wouldn't it be better if there were Audible Traffic Signals at most
>>> intersections? It seems that the chirpy sound would both keep the drivers
>>> and the pedestrians alert. I believe that if a driver were at an
>>> intersection with an Audible Traffic Pedestrian Signal it (the driver)
>>> would
>>> hear the chirpy sound of the signal and help him/her to be more aware of
>>> his/her surroundings. Surroundings being other cars, traffic signal, flow
>>>
>>> of
>>> traffic, and pedestrians. Why is it that the NFB does not endorse this
>>> sort
>>> of protection for its people? I think it would be more effective to have
>>> these signals installed at all major intersections.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mari Hunziker
>>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Hyde, David W. (ESC) <
>>> david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You are correct. A cane, a dog, nor anything else protects pedestrians
>>>> from
>>>> inattentive drivers. Nor, by the way, does vision, or a suit of armor.
>>>> The
>>>> only thing that does is being an attentive pedestrian. Those who put
>>>> faith
>>>> in the willingness of drivers to obey laws are right, most of the time.
>>>> My
>>>> personal rule is that the driver always has right of way, even when they
>>>> don't. In this case, they are bigger than me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 7:59 AM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex
>>>> withdisabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>
>>>> Well, a cane does not protect you from bad, distracted drivers.  The
>>>> blind
>>>> want equality, they have it with the drivers on the road today as far as
>>>> being run over.  I have found that most drivers today do not pay
>>>> attention
>>>> to a white cane.  I've been bumped more than once.  You really need to
>>>> pay
>>>> attention when you are crossing any intersection these days.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:41 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex
>>>> withdisabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Some intersections really are hard to cross, I am a very good
>>>> > traveler, and some times I have trouble with some of them, some times
>>>> > there are just hard to do, they may or may not be true in her case.
>>>> > And drivers are getting very bad anymore, they are always texting and
>>>> > crap like that, and when you have kids, you have to really watch it.
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>>>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:45 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex
>>>> > withdisabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dear Mary,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I must say that you need some basic O and M instruction in street
>>>> >> crossing.
>>>> >> As for get a light installed, you need to keep after the traffic
>>>> >> department and also your city or County Commissioner as this is a
>>>> >> safety issue.
>>>> >> Do you use a Long White Cane?  If so where did you go for training.
>>>> >> You should contact your State's Division of Blind Services and they
>>>> >> will pay for it and other rehab training you need.
>>>> >> Don't let the world pass you by.  Time is wasting.
>>>> >> Your State's DBS can send you to a training center or even send
>>>> >> someone to your home to help train you to get across that street and
>>>> >> allot more.
>>>> >> Good luck sweetie!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> From: "Mari Hunziker" <marihunziker at gmail.com>
>>>> >> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>> >> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Gary, I haven't had the STRENGTH to respond to Peter's message. I
>>>> >>> too, have suffered greatly. I used to receive transportation
>>>> >>> services here in my city but a few years ago they built a Park &
>>>> >>> Ride several miles away. And because of it I am no longer in the ADA
>>>> >>> service area. I have become a burden to friends, family, and my
>>>> >>> husband. My kids and I are trapped in our home, until some generous
>>>> >>> sameritan drives us to the store, the park, etc. I'm not even able
>>>> >>> to cross the street across from my subdivision. I have contacted,
>>>> >>> TXDOT, Travis County, and the city to have them install safe
>>>> >>> pedestrian crossings. They have not taken any action yet. I also was
>>>> >>> on a committee to purchase new park playground equipment for the
>>>> >>> park near my home. The board of my HOA said it would be in by April.
>>>> >>> It is now June and they still haven't put any playground equipment
>>>> >>> in at the park. It makes me sad, because I do not drive, obviously
>>>> >>> since I am legally blind. I want to make a difference in the world
>>>> >>> but sometimes feel like Peter, inferior to my circumstances and
>>>> >>> environment. It is very frustrating. I want so hard to be
>>>> >>> independent but where I live it is impossible to get anywhere
>>>> >>> independently.
>>>> >>> I however, am proud of the fact that I can walk to my son's school,
>>>> >>> to the DQ and Taco Bell and Walgreens near the school as well as a
>>>> >>> few other places like the Post Office that are on the same side of
>>>> >>> the street that my home is on. How do I get the local governments
>>>> >>> and other organizations willing to make accommodations so that I may
>>>> >>> become an independent patron of the establishments across the street
>>>> >>> from my subdivision? Oh and by the way, cabs/taxi's are extremely
>>>> >>> expensive to call on just to get across the street. Please help!
>>>> >>> Please give me some advise.
>>>> >>> Thank you,
>>>> >>> Mari
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Gary Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Peter, I disagree with your characterization of the notes written
>>>> >>>> to you as arrogant or conservative.  No one has told you to just go
>>>> >>>> do it yourself.
>>>> >>>>  People have put their hearts into words for you and in thanks for
>>>> >>>> that you have told us what a small list we make up and how small
>>>> >>>> minded we are.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Julie wrote to you a wonderfully constructive message.  The same is
>>>> >>>> true of Steve and Dave and others.  You have to decide whether you
>>>> >>>> are content being angry and figure out how to channel your anger
>>>> >>>> into something positive.
>>>> >>>> If
>>>> >>>> you need help convincing Alabama rehab to send you to a Center, we
>>>> >>>> can try to help.  We can't promise results, but we can promise our
>>>> >>>> best efforts.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> If your area has no chapter, then we need you more than ever
>>>> >>>> because there is hope the NFB isn't offering which you can bring if
>>>> >>>> you will.  If you have suffered more than most of us, then perhaps
>>>> >>>> you will have more compassion than we for people who really need
>>>> >>>> you.  Your inspiration may inspire them, your perseverance may give
>>>> >>>> them strength, and your willingness to give some of yourself to
>>>> >>>> them will make all of us better.  Are you interested in talking
>>>> >>>> about problems and solutions or in just putting us down for
>>>> >>>> extending ourselves to you?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Gary
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>>
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>>>> >>
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