[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Fri Sep 3 15:46:50 UTC 2010

Hi Gary, Janette and All,

Well, here's one blind student that will be seeing those Bills! LOL I'll be extremely fortunate if I get Indiana VR to reopen my case to upgrade my job related technology. (A request for those of you who pray.) I have almost zero in the way of hope that they are going to contribute a dime to my schooling.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:30 AM
To: 'Jeanette Fortin'; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Hi Jeanette. As a parent who has recently finished sending a daughter to
school, I agree there are some loans and grants, but I know far too many
people who finish college with a debt equivalent to buying a new car or, in
some cases, a new house. I put a lot of money into my daughter's degree and
her mother did even more. Still, this young person still has a debt of some
$20,000 she must pay as she tries to pay for a vehicle and put together
money for a down payment on a house.

A blind person can get these loans and grants just like a sighted person
can, but my experience is that rehabilitation pays enough that we sometimes
have problems getting students to apply for scholarships which are limited
to blind people. In Missouri our last scholarship offering that was mailed
to all rehab clients and every college and university in the state yielded
three applications. That doesn't indicate a big unmet need. At least here,
if you want to go to school and pass your classes, you get tuition, books,
technology, and if all of that isn't enough, the use of people to read to
you. I'm for all of it, but I do think blind folks have a wonderful
advantage that we would see differently if we actually saw and had to pay
the bills.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jeanette Fortin
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:08 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

but diane, sighted kids can apply for grants, loans, and scholarships, i
know where of i speak, i have an 18 = year old who just did that, there are
all kinds of ways to get your education paid for if you are determined
enough and if your parents don't have the money such as my son's parents do
notk there re even more grants and  loan programs for them to use. jeanette
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

> Hi Mike,
>
> You  make a really good point, and what you are saying does make sense.
> But on the other hand, this has always drawn a very confusing and
> crooked line for me. Maybe you can help put things in perspective.
>
> For instance, sighted kids going to college don't get any of their
> education paid for by Voc. Rehab. Blind people do, or did. Mind you I
> have been out of the Voc. Rehab system for many years, and am
> struggling to be reinstated now that I am back in school because I
> have a job. Anyway, blind people used to get expenses paid through VR,
> regardless of how much money their parents made Etc. Sighted people
> don't get that. Do you know what I mean? If they need a laptop, they
> have to find another way to get it, and the list could go on.
>
> Blind people who are unemployed, and can't find a job, although they
> are doing everything they know to do, cannot get SSI. There are just a
> number of things like that.
>
> So, where do you draw the line? Where do you say "no extra
> accommodations or treatment? Does that make sense? My intent is not to
> argue with you, because I completely understand what you are saying.
> But this is really confusing to me. Can it really ever be an "either or"
situation?
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
> the individual or
> entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
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> prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error,
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:47 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
> Again, with respect, I disagree. If We truly believe that, with some
> exceptions, we, the blind, can function in the world as it is and that
> it is not up to others to accommodate us (again, with some
> exceptions), we cannot expect others to do things for us when it's
> convenient and allow us to do for ourselves when we want that. Diane's
> safety argument may well have merit but this is different than asking
> for an exception to transportation policy because we are having
difficulties.
> Many here have made great suggestions. I have seldom encountered a
> situation like this that couldn't be solved with a bit of ingenuity
> and imagination.
>
> But we don't walk in your shoes, Mari, so all we can do is voice
> opinions and offer advice and encouragement.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 6:23:02
> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Mary,
>>
>> You might want to push the decision of the school not to provide bus
>> transportation to your son. He may not have special needs, but his
>> mother does. Granted they may look at it as not being required to
>> provide accommodations to you, but if it involves getting him to
>> school, I would say that the two are interlinked. You might check
>> with the education board, or your local civil rights agency.
>>
>> Personally, though this next comment isn't necessarily blindness
>> related, I think that, in the day and time that we live in, and all
>> of the people out there which are a threat to child safety, a refusal
>> to provide safe transit for all of the children is an extremely
>> callused and irresponsible thing for the school to do.
>>
>> But anyway, you may want to consider challenging their decision not
>> to help you.
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "It is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>> the individual or
>> entity(ies)
>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>> or acting in reliance upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly
>> prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error,
>> please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery
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>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:55 PM
>> To: Marion Gwizdala; Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>> I have gotten to the point that I would rather sit at home and do
>> nothing than ask someone for a ride. Some people get so frustrated or
>> seem to be bothered by having to help me out sometimes. Yesterday, I
>> paid a friend $30 dollars in gas money to drive my son home from
>> school. My 1st grade son, is not eligible to ride the school bus
>> because his elementary school only offers busing to kids with special
>> needs. I asked for special accommodations for our situation and they
>> were not able to help. I paid the my friend because I could not see
>> myself walking 1.75 miles to the school and back another 1.75 miles
>> back in 105 degree heat. I told the district transportation manager
>> that when the heat index is so dangerously hot it should be mandatory
>> that kids get rides home somehow. It breaks my heart that kids have
>> to walk, ride their bike, etc home in that heat. My transportation
>> needs have been met by a kind friend willing to drive out of her way
>> to bring my son home. I was so blessed the last couple of years to
>> have a friend in my neighborhood be willing to carpool with us. My
>> husband drove the kids in the morning and she brought them home after
>> school. It was great. But of course things always change and we (I)
>> must learn to deal with it like I am trying to. I just signed my 2
>> year old daughter up for Dance class and then called up CARTS to
>> arrange a ride. So happy they can take us and charge us $3 each way.
>> We will see how it goes. I wish visually impaired / blind people
>> received a living expense stipend like they do in Canada.
>> It
>> would be so helpful for those of us living on a budget and for those
>> of us, like myself who live in the suburbs  with no public nor para
>> transit system.
>>
>> You all are fabulous. Thanks for all of the words of wisdom posted on
>> here.
>> I love it.
>>
>> Mari Hunziker
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Marion Gwizdala
>> <blind411 at verizon.net>wrote:
>>
>> > Diane,
>> >   I also find it interesting that people are "amazed" that it might
>> > take us
>> > 2 hours to get somewhere that, by car, only takes 30 minutes. They
>> > also express concern over how much a taxicab cost. I point out to
>> > them that I get a lot of work done on my commutes by making
>> > telephone calls and doing writing. I also share with them the
>> > comparitive savings of taxicabs, when necessary, and public
>> > transportation for regular, everyday needs, as opposed to a $300
>> > car payment, $500 insurance payment, $200/month gas budget, not to
>> > mention tune-ups, oil changes, tires and rotations, etc.
>> >   I generally use the public transportation fixed route system for
>> > most of my travel needs, Para transit when necessary, and taxicabs
>> > for those times when neither of those forms of transportation are
>> > viable, e.g.
>> > inclement
>> > weather, gigs where I need to take my sound gear, and entertainment
>> > that gets out after the buses stop running! I guess it's all a
>> > matter of perspective!
>> >
>> > Fraternally yours,
>> > Marion Gwizdala
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane"
>> > <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>> > To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:49 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >
>> >
>> >  Hey Mary,
>> >ar
>> >ar You know it's funny. Another thing that came to mind after I sent
>> >my post ar was my amazement at how frustrated I've seen some sighted
>> >people get, when ar they have to hop into the driver's seat and take
>> >a 15 minute ride in their ar car, to go somewhere that they weren't
>> >planning to go. Maybe to run an ar errand to the grocery store, or
>> >go pick up a child, or take a child's friend ar home. It just blows
>> >me away. I'm like "give me a break."
>> >ar
>> >ar My sister-in-law is like that. She always wants me to come out
>> >into the ar suburbs to her house, but never wants to come into the
>> >city to pick me up or ar visit me.  I'm thinking, "hey lady, you're
>> >the one who drives!"
>> >ar
>> >ar But see, even if you are sighted you get locked into a routine,
>> >and are ar frustrated by the little unexpected inconveniences that
>> >come up.
>> >ar Inconveniences that seem almost ridiculous to a blind person who
>> >would love ar to be able to drive independently and take care of
>> >some of those things ar without the  hassle of planning.
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar Diane Graves
>> >ar Civil Rights Specialist
>> >ar Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >ar Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit ar 317-232-2647 ar ar "It is
>> >service that measures success."
>> >ar George Washington Carver
>> >ar
>> >ar Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> >confidential ar and/or legally privileged information intended only
>> >for the individual or ar entity(ies) ar named in the E-mail address.
>> >If you are not the intended recipient, be ar advised that any
>> >unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting ar in
>> >reliance ar upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited.
>> >If you have ar received this E-mail transmission in error, please
>> >reply to sender to ar arrange for the return and proper delivery of
>> >the transmission.
>> >ar Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> >ar
>> >ar -----Original Message-----
>> >ar From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On ar Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> >ar Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:23 AM ar To: Blind Talk
>> >Mailing List ar Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question ar ar Thank
>> >you Diane and Gary, ar ar Your words of wisdom have left me to
>> >ponder about what the Lord has in ar store ar for me as a mother of
>> >two wonderful children. I know that I was given this ar opportunity
>> >for a reason. I know that being visually impaired will only ar
>> >enhance my life. Yes, Diane I wish as well that I could spend $1000
>> >in an ar afternoon and not think twice. Being financially secure
>> >does help make ar life ar a bit more comfortable but not necessarily
>> >happier. It takes a lot more ar self ar assurance of oneself to be
>> >happy. That is what I think my real issue is. I ar want to be happy
>> >with all that I have. I am most of the time. Its that ar emotional
>> >roller coaster that I don't enjoy riding at times. But for the ar
>> >most part life is good. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I really
>> >ar appreciate it.
>> >ar Mari Hunziker
>> >ar
>> >ar On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Graves, Diane
>> ><dgraves at icrc.in.gov> ar wrote:
>> >ar
>> >ar  Hi Mary,
>> >>>
>> >>> First, please know that I do understand your feelings and
>> >>> frustrations all too well. I have definitely been there before,
>> >>> and occasionally still go there. I think there was a lot of
>> >>> wisdom to be found in Gary's post, and so I'll just second it
>> >>> with a couple of points.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't care how well adjusted and accomplished you are as a
>> >>> blind person, there are times when having sight would simply be
>> >>> more convenient. It does get frustrating sometimes. But if you
>> >>> think about it, this is true in many areas of our lives. I often
>> >>> find myself feeling envious of those who can go shopping, spend
>> >>> $1000 in an afternoon, and not think twice about it, while I am
>> >>> struggling to make sure all of the bills are paid. I am
>> >>> frustrated that the members of congress charged with making our
>> >>> tax and economic decisions, are the people making more money than
>> >>> most of us will ever see.
>> >>>
>> >>>  I am often disgusted by the women who complain and refer to
>> >>> themselves as "fat" because they can't fit into a size 4 dress,
>> >>> when I would give anything to see a size 14 again .  These are
>> >>> just some small, maybe silly, examples, but my point is that
>> >>> blindness is just one of the many frustrations that life has to
>> >>> offer.
>> >>> Life
>> >>> has dealt us all a partial deck of cards, and we just have to
>> >>> learn to play the best game we can with the cards that we've been
>> >>> dealt. But, as any skilled card player knows, the more you
>> >>> practice, the more skilled you become.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just know that while you are concerned about transportation
>> >>> issues where school is concerned, some other mother is agonizing
>> >>> over how she is going to get new shoes for her child, or pay for
>> >>> the after school childcare.
>> >>> Another
>> >>> mother is worried about how she is going to get her wayward,
>> >>> rebellious teenager through high school in one piece, and on and
>> >>> on.  This is not to say that your concerns aren't frustrating and
>> >>> understandable. Please don't think that that is what I am saying
>> >>> at all. I'm just saying that the blind community is not the only
>> >>> population that encounters these frustrations.
>> >>>
>> >>> I hope this makes a little bit of sense, at least. Gary did a
>> >>> much better job than I. If you are able to attend an  NFB
>> >>> Training Center I think it would be great for you. It is always
>> >>> something that I wanted to do, but never had the opportunity.
>> >>> All the reports I have heard though have been amazing, and, if
>> >>> nothing else, it would offer you support and build your level of
>> >>> self confidence. I know that having a child would pose concerns
>> >>> in this area too.
>> >>>
>> >>> Feel free to vent to us any time. We are all here to help you.
>> >>>
>> >>> (big cyber hug for you)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Diane Graves
>> >>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> >>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> >>> 317-232-2647
>> >>>
>> >>> "It is service that measures success."
>> >>> George Washington Carver
>> >>>
>> >>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> >>> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
>> >>> for the individual or
>> >>> entity(ies)
>> >>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>> >>> recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
>> >>> distribution, or acting in reliance upon the contents of this
>> >>> E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail
>> >>> transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the
>> >>> return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> >>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >>> On
>> >>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:13 PM
>> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you so much for sharing that Mike. I would love to learn
>> >>> more about the NFB centers. I am now needing more assistance in
>> >>> finding creative ways of finding transportation for my son to get
>> >>> to and from school each day.
>> >>> Not
>> >>> being able to drive or to do other things is a constant struggle.
>> >>> I wish there was someway to get over the emotional roller coaster
>> >>> I ride every day.
>> >>> Some days thinking its a blessing to be blind and other days it
>> >>> is a curse.
>> >>> How have you all gotten over this?
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Mari Hunziker
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > As a matter of fact, one of the things done at our NFB centers
>> >>> > is to do some grilling and other chores that involve working
>> >>> > with fire precisely
>> >>> to
>> >>> > get people over their fear of being burned. It's not thatanyone
>> >>> > wishes to
>> >>> be
>> >>> > burned but (a) blindness doesn't increase one's risks assuming
>> >>> > one is careful and (b) we want to turn that fear into what
>> >>> > might be termed
>> >>> healthy
>> >>> > respect for fire which still allows one to work with it. At the
>> >>> > end of
>> >>> the
>> >>> > day, it becomes another lesson that blindness need not prevent
>> >>> > us from leading normal lives.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Mike
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews"
>> >>> > <dandrews at visi.com>
>> >>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:22 PM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Grilling question
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >  A totally blind person can grill or smoke.  i have a gas
>> >>> >grill,  and a ar large off-set smoker and use them regularly.  I
>> >>> >have also grilled with ar charcoal -- although the gas grill is
>> >>> >easier.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar There are lots of techniques to do stuff.  One good source is
>> >>> >our
>> >>> > >ar
>> >>> blind
>> >>> >ar cooks list
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-cooks_nfbnet.org
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar Dave
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar p.s.  You mentioned a "fear of getting burned."  Just like
>> >>> >with an >ar
>> >>> oven,
>> >>> a
>> >>> >ar pot of boiling water, a gas stove etc., you can get burned if
>> >>> >you
>> >>> > >ar
>> >>> don't
>> >>> do
>> >>> >ar stuff carefully and correctly, but like with the other things
>> >>> >there >ar
>> >>> are
>> >>> >ar ways.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar At 08:42 AM 8/24/2010, you wrote:
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >>> Was anyone of you grillers afraid of the fire and the
>> >>> >>> potential for getting burned. That is what keeps me from
>> >>> >>> doing it. We have a charcoal grill/smoker. My brother, father
>> >>> >>> and husband have mastered the great taste of grilled food. I
>> >>> >>> have always thought that I could not grill or do things of
>> >>> >>> that nature because I am blind(visually impaired). I now
>> >>> >>> think it might just be a fear of getting burned. I do cook
>> >>> >>> fairly well in doors, I
>> >>> never
>> >>> >>> thought about trying it outdoors. The next time we grill out.
>> >>> >>> I will
>> >>> have
>> >>> >>> to
>> >>> >>> pay more attention on how it is done so that I may someday
>> >>> >>> try it.
>> >>> >>> Who
>> >>> >>> knows, I may like doing it.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar                        David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
>> >>> >ar Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >>> >ar bltlk mailing list
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>> >>> >info for ar bltlk:
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>> >>> >ar
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>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%4
>> >>> 0panix.com
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>> >
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