[Blindtlk] Yesterday's Encounter of the Southwest Airlines Kind
Peter Donahue
pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
Sat Jun 4 17:40:21 UTC 2011
Hello Steve and everyone,
Yesterday I finally bought Mary's ticket for her flight to Orlando for
the national convention. Several of the agents I spoke with were surprised
that I did not purchess hers and my ticket at the same time. I made no bones
about telling them that it was thanks to their Customer of Size Policy that
we were forced to do it this way. To get the best rate for her fare we'll be
taking separate flights home on the 10th. On the good side Mary will be on
the same flight as one of our other chapter members leaving me behind to
check out and be sure we remove all of our belongings from the room before
leaving for home.
Whenever we arrive home we're always tripping over each other trying to
unintentionally race to see who can get totally unpacked first. With her
arriving before me she'll have the chance to unpack and settle down without
my being in her way. However it would have been nice if we could have
traveled too and from Orlando together.
When buying Mary's ticket was finished the conversation turned to my
treatment by Southwest two years ago. I let the agent know that I understood
he was a reservations agent and not a power that be for that airline and I
didn't want him to feel I was trying to take it out on him. For those who
would want to treat me like a child be assured the conversation remained
civil between him and several other agents. Sebastian told me that the phone
conversation was being recorded and that they were very much interested in
customer feedback and not to feel bad about airing my concerns.
To put it short and sweet I told him that Southwest would do well to
install wider seats on their new planes and any planes whose interior is
slated to be upgraded particularly with the merger of Southwest and Airtran.
Sebastian told me that he understood that their newly-purchased Boeing
737-800 aircraft are supposed to have wider seats and a much more roomier
cabin. A story that aired on our 10:00 news last night confirms what he told
me as American is currently taking delivery of the same aircraft model. He
even admitted that the whole customer of size policy has caused lots of
problems for that airline.
Having disgruntled large customers with service animals in the picture
only makes things worse. I told him that their statement about the space a
service animal can occupy in the airplane cabin was what caused me to
believe that they would automatically block off one of the seats next to me
and there would be no need for me to pay for it and that this point needs to
be clarified so others will not be trapped in the same sea of confusion. He
responded by saying that the whole customer of size policy has become very
tricky. I told him that I agreed and reiterated that installing wider seats
on all of their planes will fix this situation for all concerned. It will
insure that all can fly on that airline regardless of size and as a residual
benefit will insure that there will be ample room for service animals at a
passenger's seat particularly if the animal is rather large. The Air Carrier
Access Act (ACAA) does state that if a service animal is too large to travel
in the cabin an airline may require the animal to be transported in the
hold. If an airline has wider seats and corresponding floorspace for each
passenger the likelihood of this happening will be reduced.
As for the equipment several of their agents heard from me concerning
the damage to it in 2009. I had just bought it about a month before the 2009
convention. Everything made it to Detroit intact but one of my wireless mic
transmitters and several of the mics themselves were damaged due to
mishandling by Southwest's cargo personnel and machinery. When we traveled
to Kansas later that year I kept the equipment pack with me until I got on
the plane at which time I gave it to a cargo person so it could be placed in
the hold. They returned it to me when I got off the plane thus the equipment
remained under my control for most of the trip. The Southwest agents told me
that I could most likely keep the equipment with me prior to boarding the
plane but that I should check concerning retrieving it at the gate after we
deplane. If they can return a passenger's wheelchair to them at the gate
they ought to be able to return a pack containing sensitive recording
equipment to its owner the same way. I told them that if we can follow the
same procedure Delta used when we traveled to Kansas that should protect the
equipment from further harm. Another plus this time around is that both of
our flights between San Antonio and Orlando are non-stop so there'll be less
handling of my equipment by Southwest's baggage handling system. additional
travel insurance wouldn't hurt either.
As for transporting such sensitive equipment on a commercial airline
folks know that we've been exploring the use of private air charter for
future trips. Currently such a proposition remains out-of-reach for most
individuals but there are changes a foot that promise to change that. Being
able to travel privately would solve many issues for fliers such as seating
concerns, issues related to service animals )It's a common practice of air
charter companies to allow pets to travel in the cabin with their owners so
traveling with a guide dog shouldn't be an issue) and passengers can still
have access to their belongings including sensitive equipment during flight.
I told the Southwest folks that they had two potential air charter
passengers should they decide to offer private charter in the future. Delta,
British Airways, and Lufthansa all ready offer private charters to
complement their scheduled service. Perhaps Southwest and other airlines
should consider doing the same and pricing it so many more people can avail
themselves of this opportunity. For what we paid to travel to Orlando next
month for a little more we could charter a four-passenger jet and flown to
Houston or Dallas for a day. If divided over four people it works out to
about $600.00 per person. This is a situation where it's all about
convenience not price. A Southwest agent named Jan even admitted that flying
is no longer what it was at one time and didn't blame me for seeking an
alternative to schedule service to recapture those days. She told me she had
been around the airline industry for over 20 years and observed many of the
changes many of them for the worse and didn't blame people for wanting a new
way to fly.
Finally I told them I was aware of their technique for telling
disgruntled passengers to "Sit down and shut up", but of course not in those
exact words.) If they thought they were going to make me feel better by
offering me free flights I told them that they picked the wrong passenger to
try that stuff on. I told them that the only way I would consider their
having "Made things right" with me is when the language in their service
animal policy was clarified as to what large passengers with service animals
should do with respect to a second seat is concerned and that the
installation of wider seating that will accommodate passengers of any size
would be a better investment than giving away vouchers for free travel while
these issues go on unresolved. The only conditions under which I would
except such travel vouchers is if the situation that caused my inconvenience
was beyond an airline's control weather and air traffic congestion for
example. Rather than give angry large passengers free travel vouchers they
would do well to invest that money in fixing the source of their complaint
I.e. installing wider seats on all of their planes something that would also
benefit passengers traveling with large guide dogs too. I believe they
realized they had a live one on their hands and didn't have much to say
after taking so much cannon from me. If they felt I was being rude and
wasn't worth talking to I wouldn't have been able to discuss this situation
along with the purchess of Mary's ticket with so many agents. Perhaps one of
them was a supervisor.
There you have it. Let's see what goes down at crunch time. All the
best.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
In the 1970's, I would bet most business had problems dealing with service
animals. At that time it was a matter of education. As far as sensitive
electronic equipment, I don't think I would transport that sort of equipment
in that manner.Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
> Hello Steve and everyone,
>
> If you read all of the messages on this post you would have seen some
> examples. Here's hoping that this will be the first and last time we'll
> have
> to deal with them!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 7:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>
>
> How about giving us some examples of "mistreatment". I'll take free all
> day
> long if the company made an honest mistake.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>
>
>> Good morning everyone,
>>
>> Their horrendous treatment of passengers with special needs goes beyond
>> the
>> accessibility of their Web Site. In addition to the blind large
>> passengers know this all too well!Yours truly knows this from personal
>> experience. I'm mentioning this issue as it illustrates a pattern of
>> behavior by Southwest and other airlines.
>>
>> Just a word to the wise. Whenever a passenger receives less than
>> favorable treatment by this airline they have a crafty way of telling
>> disgruntled fliers to "Sit down and shut up" by issuing them vouchers for
>> free travel! My advice, don't fall for his crap!Other airlines did this
>> whenever blind passengers were mistreated by giving them vouchers for
>> free
>> travel. Fortunately the NFB told them that this stuff wouldn't fix the
>> problem and Southwest needs to hear the same message. We once sued them
>> for
>> $10,000,000 due to their mistreatment of a passenger with a guide dog
>> back
>> in the early 1970s.
>>
>> Southwest believes that issuing passengers vouchers for free travel is
>> a
>> way for them to "Make it right" so they can continue to do their "Dirty
>> work." If you asked me this is nothing but a form of appeasement and
>> absolute horsepuckey! If Southwest and other airlines can afford to give
>> away free travel to discontented passengers they can afford to make their
>> Web site accessible, implement better cargo handling procedures to
>> prevent
>> damage to sensitive items such as professional recording equipment,
>> install
>> wider seats on their planes (Especially the new aircraft they currently
>> have
>> on order and those they will obtain due to their merger with
>> Airtran),work
>> with organizations such as the NFB to insure that their personnel know
>> the
>> best ways to assist blind passengers, the list goes on.
>>
>> Again if anyone experiences ill treatment by Southwest or any airline
>> and is told to "Sit down and shut up" in the form of the issuance of
>> vouchers for free flights don't fall for it! Let them know that you will
>> only consider them having "Made things right" with you by their doing
>> nothing less than fixing the problem that caused your dissatisfaction
>> with
>> them in the first place.
>>
>> By the way the line "Sit down and shut up" comes from Dr. Maurer. He
>> gave a speech in 1986 in which he repeated it over and over again.
>>
>> Peter Donahue whose fuze from mistreatment by Southwest Airlines two
>> years
>> ago is still lit and who is not looking forward to having to fly with
>> them
>> again.
>>
>>
>> Original Message -----
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>>
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> so a resolution was passed.
>> "we strongly urge"' doesn't mandate squat!
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David R.Stayer" <davidandloristayer at verizon.net>
>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>>
>>
>>> Perhaps w4e caN GET AN UPDATE AT CONVENTGION.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Friday, May 27, 2011 06:03:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes but many people have been having issues with the Southwest.com
>>>> website, this issue has not been rectified, when I use the website, it
>>>> is
>>>> not recognizable either I have to call Southwest.com and the
>>>> reservationists don't know anything about it.
>>>>
>>>> But it is not that accessible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel
>>>>
>>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>>> http://www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>>>> 631-456-5394
>>>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>>> CST-1018299-10
>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and
>>>> Travel,
>>>> Inc.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: David R.Stayer<mailto:davidandloristayer at verizon.net>
>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:11 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We passed a resolution regarding this issue last year.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: mr. hooper
>>>> <james_hooper at earthlink.net<mailto:james_hooper at earthlink.net>>
>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>>
>>>> Date: Friday, May 27, 2011 02:58:10 AM
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] nfb and southwest
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > greetings all federationists am i correct that their was an issue
>>>> between nfb and southwest?
>>>> > at one time up to a week ago their site had a link that made it
>>>> very usable. they hav since moved the link to a different screen
>>>> making
>>>> it vertually imposible to book a flight i was just wondering what
>>>> nfb's
>>>> sbance had been with accessability of their website.
>>>> > i have contacted both southwest and their response was we don't
>>>> have to comply with scrreen readers. i also contacted nfb's answer line
>>>> in terms of technology so hopefully they can fesove the issue. when i
>>>> first contacted southwest a week ago i wasn't confruntational at all,
>>>> i
>>>> just wanted to point out that at one time their site worked quite well.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org>
>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/davidandloristayer%40verizon.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/davidandloristayer%40verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> Each day is a precious gift.
>>>> David R. Stayer, LCSW-R
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> Each day is a precious gift.
>>> David R. Stayer, LCSW-R
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>
>>
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>>
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>
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