[Blindtlk] Florida Council of the BlindChapterdevelopmentandFlorida Council of the blindstudents organization development

Sat Jun 25 23:24:03 UTC 2011

Hi Dianne,

It does make sense.  But I still think that there is a lot of bad 
blood between the Federation and the Council, and there's still a 
big philosophical rivalry, so to speak.  That's why I want to 
start a bipartisan list.

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near 
you, just click on this link to their national Web site: 
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in 
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click 
on this link to learn more and to contribute: 
www.icanfoundation.info.

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:22:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the 
BlindChapterdevelopmentandFlorida Council of the blindstudents	
organization development

Hi Chris,

My understanding, is that there was a time when there was a great 
deal of animosity on both sides.  The ACB is actually a "spinoff" 
coming about due to a huge disagreement among the NFB members.  
The ACB was formed for some very childish and unethical reasons.  
So, for a time, there was a lot of bad blood, and many 
Federationist were eager to tell the ACB how ridiculous they 
were, and they told us how "radical" they thought  we were.  That 
was way before my time, so if I need to be corrected, long-time 
members, please feel free.

As time has progressed this has lessened considerably.  Today, I 
personally believe that the NFB is just intent on doing what we 
need to do and what is in the best interest of our fellow blind.  
We have better things to do with our time and way too many things 
to do with our time than pick fights with the ACB.  We are not 
going to let them get in our way without a fight, opposing 
projects that our going to further our own mission, but we aren't 
interested in a continuing civil war either.  As Dave said to the 
lister who prompted this thread, he didn't have any problem with 
him starting an ACB chapter.  He could go for it, if that's what 
he wanted to do, but he wasn't going to advertise in our midst.  
Does this make sense?

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:37 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter 
developmentandFlorida Council of the blind students organization 
development

I agree, Cheryl! Now, I'd like to ask this question while we're
on the subject: do you think that NFB tries to get along with
ACB, but ACB wants to bash us, or the other way around? Or, do
you think it's both organizations not wanting to get along?

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:16:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentandFlorida Council of the blind students organization
development

I find many not wanting to belong to either, only because they
feel both groups need to grow up and get along, or donâ€™t help
at all.  NOW, DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

Mind you I have had these issues trying to start a local chapter
here in Suffolk County.  So there are people that would just not
want to be part of either.

I have been on the ACB website before, I myself donâ€™t like the
fact they still have 6-7 pages of bashing the NFB from the
original break up of the NFB way back when.  Many of us were not
even born or children when this came about.

And you know what they say about people being prejudice, you are
not born that way it is learned.

Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriat
ravel.com

Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10

Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
Travel, Inc.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: T.  Joseph Carter<mailto:carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
  To: Blind Talk Mailing List<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentand Florida Council of the blind students organization
development

  I figure they can be ACB members not thinking of jumping ship
too, as
  long as theyâ€™re not trying to cause a constant ruckus.  I
personally
  donâ€™t even mind a debate now and then about their views
versus ours.
  If our position cannot stand up to honest debate, then we ought
to
  change it.  Of course, the same holds true of theirs.

  Unfortunately, too often debates of this nature degrade to
false
  dichotomies, straw men, and your basic ad homiem.  If that
could be
  avoided, we might actually get somewhere with trying to unite
the
  blindness community on at least those issues where there is
common
  ground (which is more of them than youâ€™d think, actually!)

  I didnâ€™t have much luck with that effort.  Too many hotheads
on both
  sides.  Of course Iâ€™ve got my own opinions about the
distribution of
  hotheads is to each side, and to what extent they are tolerated
or
  even welcomed by one versus the other.

  Suffice it to say that I donâ€™t predict much unity in our
future.  And
  thatâ€™s a real shame.

  Joseph

  On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 06:47:52AM -0400, cheryl echevarria
wrote:
Problem  with this, we want all blind and people to join, they
can be ACB members why not especially if they are thinking of
jumping ship.  There are guidelines for the groups, and David
Andrews can remove people.

Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<
http://www.echevarriatravel.com/
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriat
ravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com

Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10

Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
Travel, Inc.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Humberto
Avila<mailto:avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com<mailto:avila.bert.hum
berto2 at gmail.com
  To: 'Blind Talk Mailing
List'<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org
  Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentand Florida Council of the blind students organization
development

  Actually David, can we start putting  stricter guidelines for
joining
  mailing lists from the NFB instead of just sending an email
message to the
  mailman or filling out the form? Is there a way that there is
some sort of
  approval process and application, for example, that you can
create, for
  joining an NFB list? I say this because of greater security
reasons.  We
  would be less vulnerable to spam and ad messages if we do so
also.
  Just my thoughts, Humberto

  -----Original Message-----
  From:
blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org<ma
ilto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet
.org>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf Of David Andrews
  Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:27 PM
  To: Blind Talk Mailing List;
acb-lions at acb.org<mailto:acb-lions at acb.org<mailto:acb-lions at acb.o
rg%3Cmailto:acb-lions at acb.org>>;
announce at acb.org<mailto:announce at acb.org<mailto:announce at acb.org%
3Cmailto:announce at acb.org>>;

acb-hsp at acb.org<mailto:acb-hsp at acb.org<mailto:acb-hsp at acb.org%3Cm
ailto:acb-hsp at acb.org>>;
nabs at acb.org<mailto:nabs at acb.org<mailto:nabs at acb.org%3Cmailto:nab
s at acb.org>>;
acb-l at acb.org<mailto:acb-l at acb.org<mailto:acb-l at acb.org%3Cmailto:
acb-l at acb.org>>;
acb-chat at acb.org<mailto:acb-chat at acb.org<mailto:acb-chat at acb.org%
3Cmailto:acb-chat at acb.org>>;

fcb-l at acb.org<mailto:fcb-l at acb.org<mailto:fcb-l at acb.org%3Cmailto:
fcb-l at acb.org>>;
leadership at acb.org<mailto:leadership at acb.org<mailto:leadership at ac
b.org%3Cmailto:leadership at acb.org>>;
nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org>>;
fabs at nfbnet.org<mailto:fabs at nfbnet.org<mailto:fabs at nfbnet.org%3Cm
ailto:fabs at nfbnet.org>>;

nfbf-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>>;
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nf
bnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nf
bnet.org%3Cmailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org
  Cc:
k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com%3Cm
ailto:k7uij at panix.com>>;
steve.jacobson at visi.com<mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com<mailto:ste
ve.jacobson at visi.com%3Cmailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com
  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
development and
  Florida Council of the blind students organization development

  Are you nuts -- writing to a bunch of NFb lists to start an ACB
  Chapter.  I have previously warned you about inappropriate
messages,
  consequently you will be removed and banned from joining our
lists.

  I don't care about your starting an ACB Chapter, I would rather
see
  someone involved with them instead of nothing, but we can not
and
  will not be the vehicle of your advertising.

  David Andrews, List Owner

  At 10:12 PM 6/21/2011, Mr.  Alexander Scott Kaiser wrote:
Tuesday, June 21, 2011
Hello all fcb and NFB members,
  hello all blind broward county Florida citizens who  are
members
 of the National Federation of the Blind and American Council of
the
 Blind.  I would like to start a chapter  of  the Florida Council
of
 the blind called the Greater Broward county-  greater Tamarac
 Florida Council of the Blind.  I would also  like to start a
 National alliance of blind students devision for Florida Council
of
 the Blind called the Greater tamarac- Greater broward county
 Florida blind students Coalolission incorporated.  I am looking
at
 establishing the chapter  and blind students division  in August
of
 2011.  I would like to get a list of people together to propose
the
 devision and the new chapter of FCB to Paul Edwards.  I can be
 contacted off list at
AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com<mailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.
com<mailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com%3Cmailto:AScottKaiser10
301990 at inbox.com>>.  I can also be
 called at 1 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6.  I can be called on skype at
 Alexander.the.great1990.  Please respond as immediately as
possible.
Sincerely,
Mr.  Alexander Scott Kaiser

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