[Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes

Tue May 3 18:42:41 UTC 2011

You have a lot of good points in your email! People should not look down on
other people just because they use para transit. Every one's circumstance is
different. Some people may have additional disabilities, others may not have
access to fixed route busses, and yet others may not be able to afford to
hire drivers to take them where they want to go, and may not be able to
trade skills or services for rides, ect.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Evans
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:08 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes

Dear All,

You are right about the holier than crap.
The reasons I use Para-transit much of the time has to do with other medical

conditions I have and then because of convenience.
I was a member of the NFB Seminary where we were called, "The Wiggly Worms 
Seminar."
The leader of this seminar was Dr. Jernigan and Dr. Mauer.
We discussed this misconception that some federationist have with trying to 
be "super Blind" and looking down on other Blind people who do not meet 
their standard of "Federations."
Dr Jernigan read us some letters, that were written to him about this and 
that is when he came back at us with his principles of Independence.
I spoke up and said that it was the most enlighten philosophy that I had 
ever heard. This was the speech that he gave at the Dallas National 
Convention that year called "The Nature of Independence" and is one of the 
hallmarks of the philosophy of the
 NFB.
This all came about because of a letter, written by a student, who was 
attending the center in Ruston.    She was , as it turned out sitting right 
next to me and even thou Dr. Jernigan never read her name to the group, I 
heard her whisper to her girl friend next to her, "He is reading my letter."

She asked,"Why do we see you Dr. Jernigan and Dr. Mauer, walking sighted 
guide around the Conventions and the Ruston Center, and not using your cane 
skills to get around."  "Why do, we the students get the impression that we 
should never use sighted guide and should always use our canes and protect 
our independence."    She when on to state that there was a feeling that 
anyone using sighted guide was looked down by certain federationist and that

those who accepted this kind of help were "inferior Blind People."
Dr. Jernigan said that the reason he and Dr. Mauer used the sighted guide 
many times was because of time constraints on them to be places and do 
certain things on tight time schedules.
He asked us , the seminar that is, how can you tell when you are independent

or not.  He summed it up with this statement.  "Who has the Power."  Who is 
in charge of the situation and controlling it.
He pointed out that even when you use Sighted guide, He said  , where he 
gripped the elbow of his sighted guide, it was he that was directing that 
guide to steer him where he wanted to go, when he wanted to go there and if 
the guide did not take him there or did not follow his orders, he always had

the option to just release his grip and make his own way using his cane 
skills.
He also said that there was a little bit of a difference in the situation 
the student described that needed to be taken into account.  She was a 
student and she was in training where she needed to surrender some of her 
independence temporarily to the instructors for the purpose of learning the 
skills.  He said that sometimes the students get the wrong message and feel 
that if they don't make their own way, using only their cane skills, not 
letting anyone else help them and forgetting about methods that just make 
good sense, such as walking sighted guide with a companion so that the two 
of you are not spread all over the sidewalk, talking loud or yelling to each

other or with one person constantly giving course corrections to the other 
person.  He asked how does it look to the Public if you seem disorganized, 
stubborn or doing things that don't make good logical sense?
If two people are walking together, does it not make sense that they should 
walk close together or hold on to each other to more easily hold a 
conversation as they walk?"
Should we be concerned that some Blind people give the Public false 
impressions that they project on to all Blind people?  Should we not put 
forth the best possible image of Blind people that we can?  We should try to

present the best image we can as all of us suffer and are judged by the last

example that other John Q Public has seen because they don't know the 
difference.
We do need to be careful about accommodations that we seek out and use as 
they can send a message to others that the blind must have these things to 
help them just because they are blind.  Such things as special fares on 
transit, being able to go to the head of the line, pass others who were 
there first and other such special treatment.
This send the message that we are all dependent upon this special treatment 
in order to functions, therefore we are inferior to everyone else.
It is a fine line we must walk.  If on the one hand we are asking for 
special treatment and everyone else is not, how can we be equal?
The truth is that it is up to all of us to just be the best blind person we 
can and to encourage others to be the same.  We will all not be just a like 
no matter what, but as more and more of us show ourselves to be competent 
and knowledgeable with good skills the World's opinion will change about us.

We change the World one person and one life at a time.  It is a falsehood to

believe that we elevate ourselves by tearing others down.  We elevate 
ourselves by helping and enlightening otherswithout malice and by good 
example.
The most flattering things is emulation, for others to respect and revere 
you so much that they want to be like you, the same way that many young 
people want to be like their favorite rock star.  Having other people look 
up to you and the example you set is the best praise you can have.  Be the 
best you can be and no one can ask more of you.
I miss Dr. Jernigan and the talks we use to have at conventions.  I will 
always remember sitting talking in the break room at the National Center 
eating ice cream.

David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes

> All,
>
> First and formost, I know the topic was brought up for those who are 
> normal
> blind folks, not those with additional disabilities. But as one of those
> people, I must say something.As a Federationist, for my entire life, I 
> will
> not stand for the holy than thou crap! Great you can take the fixed route
> buses, great you live in an area to which you can use those tools. Have 
> you
> holy than thou folks, ever thought that some of us, who have additional
> disabilities can not use fixed route systems? Has that ever occurred to 
> you?
> Probably not. So what I use the paratransit. Does that bother you? No it
> should not. But you look down upon those of who do for reasons we can not
> help. Also take into consideration, that I live in a county with no fixed
> routes. Yes I have hired drivers, yes I trade and give things to others 
> for
> rides. But when I must get some place, like school, I have to use what I
> have. I am hearing impaired, hard of hearing, whatever you want to call 
> me.
> Also blind, totally blind. God forbid one day some of you folks ever loose
> your hearing, or something else worse. Come on folks, don't judge other
> blind people. I don't judge you. And NFB'ers wonder why people think we 
> are
> so militant, it's the holy than thou crap!
>
> Back into my hole, where I am happy to say I am different.
>
> marsha
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of David Evans
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:53 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List; davidb521 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> All I am advocating is that we all must use the tools and materials we are
> given to get around.
> If you can use the fixed route bus for your needs, use it.
> If Para-transit is there and there are barriers that prevent you from 
> using
> the fixed route bus for all of your trips, use the Para-transit.
> There should be no shame either way.
> In some cases there are no options.  We just need to get the job done of
> getting ourselves where and when that we need to go to live our lives the
> best we can.
> If you could hold a job,by taking Para-transit, but not the fixed route
> buses, would you choose to hold the job or sit home and let your live pass
> you by?
> Reverse that an ask yourself if you could hold a job, using the fixed 
> route
> bus and not the Para-transit service, would you hold that job?
> Holding the job would likely change your life for the better, so why does 
> it
>
> matter how you get there to do the job
> Having a job could let you move closer to the job and maybe walk to work 
> or
> ride some other form of Public Transportation to work and all of the other
> places you need to go.
> Accessing Public Transportation, in any form, adds to your independence 
> and
> advances your life.
> I must commute 43 miles one way, 5 days a week to work at my job.
> It takes me , and my guide dog Jack, about 2 to 2.5 hours one way each day
> to do this.
> I have 3 ways to get to my job.
> I can take the Para-transit, which takes just as long as the Fixed route
> bus.  I can take the fixed route bus which means taking 3 buses and a 3 
> hour
>
> each way trip or I can take 3 buses and the Tri-rail train that cuts 45
> minutes off the fixed route time as long as the train and the buses are on
> time.
> I can access the fixed route bus at two different points by walking, but
> need to cross some busy streets to do it.
> One of these is the intersections of two 6 lanes roads that have meridians
> in the middle, duel left hand turn lanes and all 4 corners and right on 
> red
> lanes at all four corners too.  I have to cross both roads to get to the
> stop.
> The other way , I have to walk out of my way , which is over a mile and 
> need
>
> to cross two busy streets at the corner of a adult living complex, Century
> Village, and a shopping center.
> With the risk of crossing these streets, which I do if I must, and the 
> time
> it takes to walk there, with a back pack full of computer equipment, lunch
> and raincoat, dog treats and toys, and you can see why taking the
> Para-transit looks to be the best way for me to do the trip.
> I have also been hit twice right outside Century Village in the past so
> forgive me if I am a little gun shy now.  Both times were hit and run and
> they were never caught.  .
> I can even work in my computer as I go while we are picking up and 
> dropping
> off other people.  I am more productive verses the bus and train options.
> I do what works for me.  I think that you should do the same.
> My job and my travels can range over 3 counties and 130 miles sometimes 
> just
>
> to attend meetings of boards and committees I serve on.
> I use all available forms of transit in my area at least once or twice a
> month.
> I serve on the Palm Tran Service Board, the Palm Tran Para-transit
> Sub-Committee, the Transportation Disadvantaged Local Coordinating Board 
> and
>
> the South Florida Regional Transit Authority/Tri-Rail Advisory Committee.
> At my job, I run the window dispatch and get the manifests out to the
> drivers, log them in and out, answer the switchboard and route the calls,
> handle the lost and found and do some driver training.  I am totally blind
> at this point in my life.  I also do public outreach and public relations
> and handle legislative affairs too.
>
> David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "nikki Wunderlich" <nikki0222 at gmail.com>
> To: <davidb521 at gmail.com>; "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" 
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>
>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> I think if you don't have to use parra transit because you can use fixed
>> routes with confidence, then I would use the fixed routes. But as I said
>> in
>> my last email to the list I do not live with in walking distance of a bus
>> stop, and have no way to get to it. Also even if I did live with in
>> walking
>> distance of the bus stop there's a busy high way between where I live and
>> the bus stop. I believe it's 4 laines either direction. SSo in total I'd
>> have to cross 8 lanes of traffic, some of which are turning lanes.
>> Crossing
>> 2 or four lanes of traffic doesn't bother me, but any more than that is
>> really daunting to me. I mean I could probably do it if I had to, but if 
>> I
>> don't have to I'm not going to. I used to live with my sister in the same
>> apartment complex that I'm living in now, and back then I qualified for
>> Metro Mobility, so I don't see why I wouldn't qualify for it now, but
>> we'll
>> have to see. Personally if I could use fixed routes I would, because it's
>> less expencive, but I can't. It's not because of my travel skills either.
>> They're pretty good. My vision is my only disability too. Well I think
>> this
>> email is long enough, so I will end it and say to all I hope you have a
>> great day!
>>
>> Nikki
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of David
>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:17 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>>
>> Hello. I was reading the thread discussing the pros and cons of blind
>> driving, and noticed some discussion regarding paratransit versus fixed
>> routes. What I am wondering is this. Does paratransit in most cities
>> closely
>> follow fixed routes within a certain radius as I assume it does in Palm
>> Beach County? From what I read from the list, paratransit is neither
>> superior or inferior to fixed routes, hence it's name. Therefore, if
>> blindness is your only disability, and your travel skills enable you to
>> travel anywhere you please with confidence, as is the case with me, what
>> are
>> the advantages of paratransit, if any? I am interested in hearing your
>> thoughts on this.
>>
>> David
>>
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