[Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple

[Steve Jacobson]

Peter,

I don't disagree with you, but I want to mention that the reason the resolutions were not made broader is that apple 
exercises a lot more control over software developers than does Microsoft and they make no bones about it.  
Therefore, some of what the resolutions said would really not apply very well to Microsoft, for example, even though 
the intent might be good.  We have, in the past, asked Microsoft to take a stronger role in directing the development 
of software for Windows, and they have a "logo" program, but it isn't as strong as apple's.  .  Still, I think there is a 
need to get the sources of development platforms such as Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Java and others to do more to 
insure accessibility than is usually done now.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
one 
On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:57:43 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote:

>Hello Cheryl and everyone,

>    It's a shame that both Apple resolutions didn't pass. While it's true 
>Apple has done much to make their products usable by the blind we can't let 
>the "Let's be grateful for what they've done" attitude prevent us from 
>pushing them to the next level. I'd like to see that resolution brought back 
>next year and broadened to include other software vendors such as Microsoft. 
>If we don't force software creators to build in accessibility to their 
>products by requiring such accessibility as an award criteria for 
>outstanding development of their products. If we don't and software produced 
>by Apple and others becomes inaccessible to the blind we will have only 
>ourselves to blame by not insisting that those who reward software creators 
>for outstanding development and product usage are  not required to include 
>accessibility features for the blind and disabled. Again it's a crying shame 
>that both Apple resolutions didn't pass. We could pay the price for this 
>failure in the future. I certainly hope not.

>Peter Donahue


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 11:58 AM
>Subject: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple


>Well maybe people on this list that voted against it elaborate as to why
>they voted against it.


>Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

>Cheryl Echevarria
>http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>631-456-5394
>reservations at echevarriatravel.com

>Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Superior Travel, located in
>Baldwin, NY. www.superiortravel.com

>Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, Inc.


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 4:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Bulk] Re: a great article


>> Ah yes, I have a recording of the stream of that particular days' events.
>> I must say, that was quite an episode.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> Facebook:
>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>
>> > An example of not all of us following like zombies, at the national
>> > convention. A resolution about apple. Don't quite remember the wordage,
>> > but
>> > it did not pass. More than half of the floor voted against it. If you
>> > were
>> > at the convention you would know what I am talking about.
>> >
>> > I was one of the many who voted against the resolution. I didn't think
>> > it
>> > was fair, and not something the NFB needed to make an resolution for.
>> >
>> > Others are welcome to chime in here...
>> > Marsha
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > On
>> > Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:19 PM
>> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>> >
>> > hi,
>> >
>> > no point in rehashing the lost funds as they have been forgiven in the
>> > midwest.
>> > i was the only one to push the issue and was blasted for it. it's things
>> > like that which make the nfb taste bitter.
>> >
>> > Not all of us just follow in line like zombies.
>> >
>> > I'd like to see more examples of that.
>> >
>> > Bryan Schulz
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>> > To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:14 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>> >
>> >
>> >> This thread is very tiring, very frustrating and gets us no where. So
>> >> if
>> >> us
>> >> NFB members never ask the tough questions, and look the other way. What
>> >> was
>> >> the illegal behavior your speaking of? I am pretty sure if there was
>> >> any
>> >> illegal behavior, we just as much any other person would ask the
>> >> "tough"
>> >> questions. Not all of us just follow in line like zombies.
>> >>
>> >> If your so anti-NFB, why do you hang out here. Your welcome to leave
>> >> any
>> >> time. We would rather you go away. So our list can go back to being
>> >> constructive and productive. Oh wait that is right, we are all lyres,
>> >> we
>> >> allow illegal behavior, and follow like zombies. You can think what you
>> >> want. But this skirting around subjects does nothing. We are not going
>> >> to
>> >> change our minds about what we think.
>> >>
>> >> Marsha
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> On
>> >> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:07 PM
>> >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>> >>
>> >> hi,
>> >>
>> >> no, i'm not accusing anyone, the event already happened.
>> >> the point is don't ask tough questions unless you have thick skin.
>> >>
>> >> Bryan Schulz
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:49 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I see, my mistake.
>> >>>
>> >>> You aren't taking pot shots at the ACB without facts to back it up.
>> >>> You
>> >>> are taking pot shots at the NFB without facts.
>> >>>
>> >>> It takes a lot of guts to come into an organization and start accusing
>> >>> its
>> >>
>> >>> members of vaguely illegal activities without offering any specifics
>> >>> or
>> >>> evidence.  But I'm sure doing so will get you all the consideration
>> >>> you're
>> >>
>> >>> due.
>> >>>
>> >>> And with that, I think I'm about finished with the discussion.
>> >>>
>> >>> Joseph - KF7QZC
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 05:36:54PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>> >>>> hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> no, i'm not talking about the acb but the point still applies.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bryan Schulz
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>> >>>> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>> >>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:09 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I suggest if that helps you maximize your involvement with and
>> >>>>> benefit
>> >>>>> from an organization, you find another organization.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Perhaps though, we don't want to go down this road, or at least not
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> this fashion.  The ACB has in the past allowed its members to make
>> >>>>> baseless, unsupported, and uncontested claims of illegal behavior by
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> NFB.  It was rather off-putting, and I'd have thought so even if I
>> >>>>> were
>> >>>>> not a Federationist!  Indeed, it seems always to be so, in any
>> >>>>> organization, whether or not I have any affiliation with anybody.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If there's something new and recent that needs to be discussed
>> >>>>> regarding
>> >>>>> the ACB, we should probably do it, but in a new thread with the
>> >>>>> relevant
>> >>>>> details.  If it's a rehash of old wrongdoings by former officers, I
>> >>>>> don't
>> >>
>> >>>>> know how useful it would be to debate today.  It's like discussing a
>> >>>>> questionable action taken by Janet Reno while she worked for Bill
>> >>>>> Clinton. Anyone personally affected would find it relevant, but
>> >>>>> society
>> >>>>> as a whole wouldn't be interested today.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sometimes the bad guys get away with it.  Usually when the good guys
>> >>>>> don't stand up to them until its too late.  But that takes me off on
>> >>>>> my
>> >>>>> own tangent.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Joseph - KF7QZC
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 03:53:02PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>> >>>>>> hi,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> there should be at least one more.
>> >>>>>> #16. Don't ask tough questions even when a member does something
>> >>>>>> questionable and probably illegal.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum"
>> >>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> To: "NABS list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "Blind Talk list"
>> >>>>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "Gary Legates" <gary.legates at comcast.net>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] a great article
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have subscribed
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.  The Monitor, as
>> >>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>> know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication and the Forum is the
>> >>>>>>> Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a great article in July's
>> >>>>>>> Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize your ACB Membership,"
>> >>>>>>> giving
>> >>>>>>> fifteen tips on how to take advantage of all ACB (or any
>> >>>>>>> organization,
>> >>>>>>> for that matter) has to offer.  I think this could also apply to
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> Federation and to NABS or any other special-interest division, and
>> >>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>> some good advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> some parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>> >>>>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>> >>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>> throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to learn
>> >>>>>>> about both.  Here is the article.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>> >>>>>>> by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>> >>>>>>> All too often, people join organizations without taking
>> >>>>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>> >>>>>>> its
>> >>>>>>> purpose,
>> >>>>>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>> >>>>>>> lack
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to forfeit
>> >>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>> >>>>>>> great
>> >>>>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>> >>>>>>> explore
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> assist
>> >>>>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>> >>>>>>> skills
>> >>>>>>> complement yours.
>> >>>>>>> 1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>> >>>>>>> 2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>> >>>>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>> >>>>>>> turn
>> >>>>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>> >>>>>>> looking
>> >>>>>>> for.
>> >>>>>>> 3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get involved.
>> >>>>>>> 4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>> >>>>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>> >>>>>>> observe
>> >>>>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>> >>>>>>> organization.
>> >>>>>>> 5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>> >>>>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>> >>>>>>> 6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state affiliate
>> >>>>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>> >>>>>>> 7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>> >>>>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>> >>>>>>> objectives.
>> >>>>>>> Seek
>> >>>>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>> >>>>>>> abilities
>> >>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>> >>>>>>> 8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>> >>>>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask a
>> >>>>>>> president
>> >>>>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>> >>>>>>> 9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by our
>> >>>>>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to learn
>> >>>>>>> about
>> >>>>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>> >>>>>>> awards,
>> >>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>> >>>>>>> 10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>> >>>>>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>> >>>>>>> others
>> >>>>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>> >>>>>>> occupation,
>> >>>>>>> hobbies,
>> >>>>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>> >>>>>>> 11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to learn
>> >>>>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>> >>>>>>> organization.
>> >>>>>>> 12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>> >>>>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>> >>>>>>> 13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>> >>>>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>> >>>>>>> calls
>> >>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>> >>>>>>> calls.
>> >>>>>>> 14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>> >>>>>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>> >>>>>>> site
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>> >>>>>>> 15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>> >>>>>>> the same.
>> >>>>>>> The more you know and the more you become involved, the more you
>> >>>>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> >>>>>>> real
>> >>>>>>> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.
>> >>>>>>> If
>> >>>>>>> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness
>> >>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>> be reduced to a mere physical nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>> >>>>>>> (President
>> >>
>> >>>>>>> of the National Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>> >>>>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40s
>> > b
>> >> cglobal.net
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carter.tjosep
>> > h
>> >> %40gmail.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>> > g
>> >> lobal.net
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
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>> >>
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