[Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
Ray Foret Jr
rforetjr at att.net
Mon Sep 5 19:11:06 UTC 2011
Uh, Peter, slow down a minute. In this particular situation, it's not all Apple's fault. It's not all ours either. If you read what Steve and Joseph and I said earlier, I think you'll find the discussion moving in a somewhat different discussion than you might have expected. Why beat someone over the head with a sledge hammer when you just might catch more flies with honey?
Sometimes, dude, a feather is both lighter and much more effective.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
Skype name:
barefootedray
Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
On Sep 5, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> They'll just have to get over it and work more closely with us in the future
> and encourage their developers to partner with us to merge the technologies
> we're developing with their current and unreleased products. Perhaps we were
> too quick to give them a Bolotton Award last year. They'll just need to get
> unticked with us and move on.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
>
>
> That's why I like the notion of an open letter. It would be a vehicle for
> getting it all "out on the table" so to speak.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
>
> Facebook:
> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2011, at 12:03 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>
>> The official position from Apple is that accessibility is important to
>> them, and that they cannot comment on unreleased products (and that their
>> employees had better not!)
>>
>> The position from Apple employees is that accessibility remains their
>> priority (after all, a good number of them are employed for just that
>> purpose!), but they're pretty ticked at the NFB right now. I'm sure the
>> situation is not irreparable.
>>
>> Apparently I'm not the only Federationist out there who has tried to run
>> some damage control on the matter. It'd be a major no-no to tell me who
>> else had contacted them, so I don't know who, but others have apparently
>> done so. Of course, a few have contacted Apple to tell them to ignore the
>> militant NFB yadda yadda (I wonder if those guys are affiliated with any
>> organization?)
>>
>> A little more thoughtfulness from us in the future and a clear effort to
>> work WITH Apple to improve accessibility will undo most of the damage
>> that's been done in pretty short order.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 11:37:56AM -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>> steve does have some good points. Let me ask. Is the situation
>>> irrepairable now? I think that I would much rather have an official
>>> position from Apple before assuming the worst.
>>>
>>> I still say and open letter would be best. Idaelly, I have in my mind
>>> that at leasst Dr. Maurer and Tim Cook would read such a letter. Such a
>>> letter would include facts which, on their face would seem self
>>> contradictory; but, would, I think shed much light on the Apple debate.
>>> In such a letter, It would be mentioned that the NFB really got it wrong
>>> with the article in June 2009; but, had the sense to correct that in
>>> December of 2009. Also, that there were many Mac users who jumped all
>>> over the NFB for the June 2009 article and were totally unwilling to give
>>> the NFB the due credit for the December correction. The resolutions
>>> would be the main topic though. It would be emphasized that the second
>>> resolution failed by a considerable margin and that I felt very strongly
>>> that a positive working relationship between Apple and the NFB would be
>>> much better than a hostile one.
>>>
>>> What say y'all?
>>>
>>> Joseph, you must admit,
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> Facebook:
>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:47 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know several Apple employees personally. I cannot really say more,
>>>> because Apple is a company full of secrets. ANY communication that does
>>>> not happen through official channels is subject to employees losing
>>>> their jobs. (Add that to the list of Apple as big brother.)
>>>>
>>>> There's no chance that we're going to lose the accessibility in Apple
>>>> products, but the hostile relationship Peter Donahue and others want the
>>>> NFB to have with Apple is now a fact of life. Apple will continue to
>>>> work on accessibility, but at least those I've talked to don't have much
>>>> love for the NFB for undermining and belittling their hard work. IMO,
>>>> that's exactly what we did.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:10:18AM -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>>>> Say, How do you know for sure that the people at Apple are now
>>>>> unwilling to work with us? I fear we are really going down the wrong
>>>>> road now. My hope is that this situation is not irreparable. What I
>>>>> intend to do with this is write and open letter to Dr. Maurer about
>>>>> this and include many of the points we discussed here. Look, it seems
>>>>> to me that we can choose the more hostile relationship; in which case
>>>>> we stand a chance of loosing what accessibility to Apple we already
>>>>> have; or, we can choose to try to repair what we can and build a
>>>>> positive relationship and get working together on this. IF we let
>>>>> Anger be the driving force behind what we do, we will destroy all the
>>>>> good work we've done so far. I see us changing; and, frankly, I do not
>>>>> like it. It seems to me that we're running the risk of loosing
>>>>> something very valuable as an organization. I'm afraid that if we keep
>>>>> this up, we'll have happen to us what Dr. Jernigan warned us about in
>>>>> his banquet speech in 1997.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are we becoming when we let this happen to us?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> Facebook:
>>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 8:00 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I can tell you that people in Apple's accessibility department have
>>>>>> reacted negatively enough to BOTH of the resolutions that they are not
>>>>>> the least bit inclined to work with us in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the exact words, at least those I'm willing to quote here on
>>>>>> the mailing list, were that the NFB can go to hell. I won't say where
>>>>>> this individual said we could stick our resolutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corporate policy remains 100% accessibility, but we have alienated
>>>>>> Apple who is trying to do the right thing while we suck up to Google
>>>>>> for their continued bad behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The resolutions were both seen at Apple, and they've already had an
>>>>>> impact on Apple's willingness to work with us to further improve
>>>>>> accessibility. Just … not the impact anyone but Freedom Scientific
>>>>>> was hoping for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Apple is evil, so it doesn't matter. And Google is awesome, so
>>>>>> who cares if they do anything accessibly? Right? Right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 06:17:46PM -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>>>>>> But, Peter, I ask you. Would you be forever in a war camp mode?
>>>>>>> Just think of the resolution concerning Google and the ones
>>>>>>> concerning Apple. Why the disparity? A fair question I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Facebook:
>>>>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2011, at 3:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Ray and everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The wording was fine. It's the "Let's be grateful" attitude that
>>>>>>>> makes folks
>>>>>>>> feel otherwise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 3:23 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not with me Peter. We need to strongly encourage people, not bitch
>>>>>>>> at them.
>>>>>>>> We need to change the wording of the resolution so that it has the
>>>>>>>> desired
>>>>>>>> effect without being bitchy about it. There are times we need to
>>>>>>>> use a
>>>>>>>> hammer, and other times, a feather will do just as well. So, we
>>>>>>>> commend
>>>>>>>> Google for trying to be accessible but bitch at Apple even though
>>>>>>>> they are
>>>>>>>> more accessible than Google? Tell me, is it because Google paid us
>>>>>>>> money,
>>>>>>>> (being a sponsor of our convention) and Apple didn't? What kind of
>>>>>>>> outfit
>>>>>>>> are we when we stoop to that level?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry for the language, but, that's the way it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Facebook:
>>>>>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The wording was fine with me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 12:25 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The issue was the wording of the Resolution, if I remember
>>>>>>>>> correctly, that
>>>>>>>>> it was to harsh, and for it to pass that we all had to agree on the
>>>>>>>>> wording.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it has nothing to do with the Resolution as a whole, but the
>>>>>>>>> wording of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> resolution couldn't be passed, it can be brought to the floor of
>>>>>>>>> convention
>>>>>>>>> next year, to be voted on again
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>>>>>>>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>>>>>>>>> 631-456-5394
>>>>>>>>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Superior Travel,
>>>>>>>>> located in
>>>>>>>>> Baldwin, NY. www.superiortravel.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
>>>>>>>>> Travel,
>>>>>>>>> Inc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 12:58 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well maybe people on this list that voted against it elaborate as
>>>>>>>>>> to why
>>>>>>>>>> they voted against it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>>>>>>>>>> 631-456-5394
>>>>>>>>>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Superior Travel,
>>>>>>>>>> located in
>>>>>>>>>> Baldwin, NY. www.superiortravel.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
>>>>>>>>>> Travel,
>>>>>>>>>> Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 4:56 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Bulk] Re: a great article
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ah yes, I have a recording of the stream of that particular days'
>>>>>>>>>>> events. I must say, that was quite an episode.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Facebook:
>>>>>>>>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An example of not all of us following like zombies, at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> national
>>>>>>>>>>>> convention. A resolution about apple. Don't quite remember the
>>>>>>>>>>>> wordage, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> it did not pass. More than half of the floor voted against it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you
>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the convention you would know what I am talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was one of the many who voted against the resolution. I didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> was fair, and not something the NFB needed to make an resolution
>>>>>>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Others are welcome to chime in here...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:19 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> no point in rehashing the lost funds as they have been forgiven
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> midwest.
>>>>>>>>>>>> i was the only one to push the issue and was blasted for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>> like that which make the nfb taste bitter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not all of us just follow in line like zombies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to see more examples of that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This thread is very tiring, very frustrating and gets us no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB members never ask the tough questions, and look the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the illegal behavior your speaking of? I am pretty sure if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal behavior, we just as much any other person would ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "tough"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. Not all of us just follow in line like zombies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If your so anti-NFB, why do you hang out here. Your welcome to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time. We would rather you go away. So our list can go back to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> constructive and productive. Oh wait that is right, we are all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lyres,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow illegal behavior, and follow like zombies. You can think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want. But this skirting around subjects does nothing. We are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change our minds about what we think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:07 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no, i'm not accusing anyone, the event already happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point is don't ask tough questions unless you have thick
>>>>>>>>>>>>> skin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:49 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see, my mistake.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You aren't taking pot shots at the ACB without facts to back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are taking pot shots at the NFB without facts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It takes a lot of guts to come into an organization and start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members of vaguely illegal activities without offering any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. But I'm sure doing so will get you all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consideration
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And with that, I think I'm about finished with the discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph - KF7QZC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 05:36:54PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no, i'm not talking about the acb but the point still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suggest if that helps you maximize your involvement with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from an organization, you find another organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps though, we don't want to go down this road, or at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this fashion. The ACB has in the past allowed its members
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> baseless, unsupported, and uncontested claims of illegal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NFB. It was rather off-putting, and I'd have thought so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even if I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a Federationist! Indeed, it seems always to be so, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization, whether or not I have any affiliation with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anybody.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there's something new and recent that needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ACB, we should probably do it, but in a new thread with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> details. If it's a rehash of old wrongdoings by former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> officers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how useful it would be to debate today. It's like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questionable action taken by Janet Reno while she worked for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton. Anyone personally affected would find it relevant,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> society
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a whole wouldn't be interested today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes the bad guys get away with it. Usually when the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't stand up to them until its too late. But that takes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own tangent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph - KF7QZC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 03:53:02PM -0500, Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be at least one more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #16. Don't ask tough questions even when a member does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questionable and probably illegal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NABS list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "Blind Talk list"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "Gary Legates"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gary.legates at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monitor, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know, is the Federation (NFB's) publication and the Forum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Council (or ACB's) publication. I found a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> July's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize your ACB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Membership,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fifteen tips on how to take advantage of all ACB (or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for that matter) has to offer. I think this could also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apply to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Federation and to NABS or any other special-interest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some good advice. To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parentheses to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some parts of the article. I have pasted the article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ACB down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about both. Here is the article.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> details of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mission, and operating practices. This can very well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abilities that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make an enormous difference. In an effort to encourage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complement yours.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Find out who the officers are and become acquainted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> affiliate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Inquire about available committees you may be able to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> objectives.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seek
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8. If you have access to the Internet, sign up for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up-to-date
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization. Ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> president
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization on all levels. This is one of the best ways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scholarships,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Identify special-interest groups that meet your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs. These groups provide you the opportunity to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hobbies,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11. Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12. Prepare for future involvement as an officer by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> becoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13. Participate in conference calls to build your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 14. Explore the web sites of your chapter, state
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> affiliate and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our national organization. You may locate information on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15. Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more you know and the more you become involved, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing to grow. Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eyesight. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exists. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be reduced to a mere physical nuisance." -- Kenneth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jernigan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (President
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the National Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40s
>>>>>>>>>>>> b
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cglobal.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carter.tjosep
>>>>>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbc
>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lobal.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>>>>>>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> virus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>>>>>>> database 6428 (20110901) __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> virus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>>>>>>> database 6428 (20110901) __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>>>>>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gm
>>>>>>>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>>>>>>>> virus
>>>>>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>>>>>> database 6428 (20110901) __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>>>>>>>> virus
>>>>>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>>>>>> database 6429 (20110902) __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>>>>>>>> virus
>>>>>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>>>>>> database 6431 (20110902) __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>>>>>>>> virus
>>>>>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>>>>>> database 6431 (20110902) __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
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