[Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Thu Sep 8 14:21:55 UTC 2011
Dave,
As you know, I agree with you completely but have additional reservations about the future. One of the problems within the Windows environment has
been that it is really pretty complex to get the information needed out of Windows. One bit part of this process has been the off-screen model that I referred
to that creates within a screen reader a text model of what is on the screen and where it is located. My feeling, to elaborate on yours, has always been that
I was uneasy having one screen reader with one way of doing things. Over the years, there has been a number of cases where either Window-Eyes or
JFW was able to do something the other didn't do. Added to that is the fact that I have trouble believing that if Microsoft was doing work on a screen
reader that they would work as hard getting it to work on a competing product. Many of us in employment situations use products that compete with
Outlook, for example.
For better or worse, Apple has changed the game some. In addition, it is my understanding that Windows 8 will no longer allow the hooks that are used to
create an off-screen model. This does not mean screen readers are dead, but it means that the Windows world will resemble more closely the Apple world
where software will have to conform to tighter rules to be accessible. It will be harder to script around obstacles in software. This will further mean that
screen readers for Windows in the future will probably be easier to write and be cheaper, and Apple's pressure might very well cause Microsoft to include a
screen reader. What this means for the commercial screen reader is hard to say, but they will probably concentrate on making software easier to use and
perhaps have a more reliable and less complicated screen reader in the long run. As a result, we are going to be more dependent than we are now on
software developers to make their software accessible. Software will tend more to be either accessible or not accessible with little middle ground and with a
lesser ability to compensate within our screen readers for inaccessible software. I do not personally think this is a choice to be made but something that is
almost a certainty to happen. The kinds of tools that might be available to enhance how we use software in the future is not completely clear, and there will
be some software that will likely work better. Operating systems with screen readers should also be more stable. However, we are going to need more help
than ever to get software developers to include accessibility in their software. Forgetting whether these resolutions were the best way to go, it is extremely
important that Apple, who exercises so much control over applications that appear on its devices, do what it can to promote accessibility within software
development. Please note that I am not saying they don't do this at all now, because I don't honestly know exactly what they do, but to some degree they
will be setting the example for the future. Just as Microsoft may need to include a screen reader because of what Apple has done, there will be a tendency
for other companies to follow Apple's model for promoting accessibility as well. If either apple or Microsoft adopts the model that I too often see in other
companies who shal remain nameless, that they provide the tools for accessibility for developers to use so their obligations are met even when those tools
are not used, I think we'll be in reall trouble in the future. If we can continue increasing the awareness of accessibility and get help from companies such as
Apple and Microsoft to make accessibility easier to implement, our computing futures will actually have a chance to be brighter.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
.
On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:38:44 -0500, David Andrews wrote:
>Joseph:
>This is different from the resolutions -- but I
>think there are some bad trends in assistive
>technology, and Apple is at the core of them. I
>say this with mixed feelings. They are to be
>commended for much of what they have done, they
>have shown that a touch screen UI could be made
>accessible. On the other hand, their free
>product, voice over, will pressure Microsoft to
>offer a free screen reader too. The word is that
>the next version of Windows with Narrator will be
>substantially beefed up. Once there is a free
>screen reader from MS, many people will stop
>buying JAWS and the like. It is unlikely that
>the free products will have all the stuff we need
>to make employment sites accessible. Voiceover
>doesn't, it works or it doesn't. I don't think
>any of us want to be dependent on our employment
>from what Microsoft or Apple do for free.
>Also, on the iDevices, inexpensive apps have
>become the norm. So, people in the blind
>community want, and expect $2 and $5 apps
>too. NO AT developer can make money selling
>stuff for $2, the market is just to small.
>I am afraid there are some unforeseen
>consequences to what Apple has and is doing. And
>... you want us to be grateful and kiss up to them.
>Dave
>\At 04:39 AM 9/6/2011, you wrote:
>>Dave, I don't think it's unreasonable to be a
>>bit miffed under the circumstances. So far the
>>NFB is 1 for 3 when it comes to recognizing the
>>effort they've put into creating accessibility
>>(and inventing new technology to do it pretty
>>much from scratch). And the only reason the NFB
>>is even 1 for 3 is because the misrepresentation
>>of the capabilities and functions of VoiceOver
>>were so profound that EVERYBODY who'd ever
>>actually used it screamed foul. The NFB's track
>>record with Apple is pretty poor, so from their
>>perspective it's got to look like we're shooting
>>our mouths off once again, without the faintest
>>clue what we're talking about. We've certainly
>>done so in the past. Which, in point of fact, WE
>>ARE. If Apple starts telling me that I cannot
>>have a certain kind of program, I'm going to
>>tell them to stick it and go write for
>>Android. It's happened before. Actually, it's
>>happened rather a lot. The entire world is
>>clamoring for Apple to cut that crap out. And
>>while their customers who give them money are
>>demanding they stop placing restrictions on
>>apps, the NFB is arguing the opposite. And
>>trying to condemn them for not doing so without
>>being told. You can mince words all you like,
>>but the fact is that the NFB screwed the pooch
>>bigtime with these two resolutions. We made
>>enemies of people who should be our
>>friends. We've belittled the people who made
>>the touch screen accessible once too often, and
>>they are sick of it. We've badmouthed the
>>people who made accessibility free, rather than
>>more than the cost of the computer you're
>>running it on once too often, and they resent
>>it. We've made it clear that we are not willing
>>to work WITH them, only to dictate terms TO
>>them, and they think we can take a hike. Apple
>>accessibility does not NEED the NFB. They're
>>doing a damned fine job without us, while we
>>have done little but baselessly snipe at them
>>from the sidelines. They plan to continue to
>>improve the state of the art, including the
>>state of the art for accessibility. If Peter is
>>a fair example of a Federationist, the NFB has
>>no desire to actually help them do it. On the
>>contrary, we want to cost them developers,
>>customers, revenue, and all based on a
>>pie-in-the-sky notion that there should never be
>>any software we can't use. And dammit, if Adobe
>>can't make Photoshop accessible, then they
>>should be FORBIDDEN from releasing the program
>>on Apple devices! I think someone estimated that
>>75% of Macs have Photoshop installed, by the
>>way. Joseph On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 02:30:38PM
>>-0500, David Andrews wrote: >Joseph, I think
>>things should have, and could have been
>>handled >differently, and better, but on the
>>other side, Apple needs to get a >thicker
>>skin. The more successful they are, the more
>>they will be >criticized and questioned. They
>>can't have it both ways. They can't >make all
>>the decisions and not expect any push
>>back. > >Dave > >At 10:47 AM 9/5/2011, you
>>wrote: >>I know several Apple employees
>>personally. I cannot really say >>more, because
>>Apple is a company full of
>>secrets. ANY >>communication that does not
>>happen through official channels is >>subject to
>>employees losing their jobs. (Add that to the
>>list of >>Apple as big brother.) There's no
>>chance that we're going to lose >>the
>>accessibility in Apple products, but the hostile
>>relationship >>Peter Donahue and others want the
>>NFB to have with Apple is now a >>fact of
>>life. Apple will continue to work on
>>accessibility, but at >>least those I've talked
>>to don't have much love for the NFB
>>for >>undermining and belittling their hard
>>work. IMO, that's exactly >>what we did. Joseph
>>On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:10:18AM -0500,
>>Ray >>Foret Jr wrote: >Say, How do you know for
>>sure that the people at >>Apple are now
>>unwilling to work with us? I fear we are
>>really >>going down the wrong road now. My hope
>>is that this situation is >>not
>>irreparable. What I intend to do with this is
>>write and open >>letter to Dr. Maurer about this
>>and include many of the points we >>discussed
>>here. Look, it seems to me that we can choose
>>the more >>hostile relationship; in which case
>>we stand a chance of loosing >>what
>>accessibility to Apple we already have; or, we
>>can choose to >>try to repair what we can and
>>build a positive relationship and get >>working
>>together on this. IF we let Anger be the
>>driving force >>behind what we do, we will
>>destroy all the good work we've done
>>so >>far. I see us changing; and, frankly, I do
>>not like it. It seems >>to me that we're
>>running the risk of loosing something
>>very >>valuable as an organization. I'm afraid
>>that if we keep this up, >>we'll have happen to
>>us what Dr. Jernigan warned us about in
>>his >>banquet speech in 1997. > >What are we
>>becoming when we let this >>happen to
>>us? > > >Sincerely, >The Constantly Barefooted
>>Ray!!! > >>>Now a very proud and happy Mac
>>user!!! > >Skype
>>name: >>>barefootedray > >Facebook: >facebook.com
>>/r ay.foretjr.1 > > > >On >>Sep 4, 2011, at 8:00
>>AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >> I can
>>tell >>you that people in Apple's accessibility
>>department have reacted >>negatively enough to
>>BOTH of the resolutions that they are not
>>the >>least bit inclined to work with us in the
>>future. >> >> I believe >>the exact words, at
>>least those I'm willing to quote here on
>>the >>mailing list, were that the NFB can go to
>>hell. I won't say where >>this individual said
>>we could stick our
>>resolutions. >> >> >>Corporate policy remains
>>100% accessibility, but we have
>>alienated >>Apple who is trying to do the right
>>thing while we suck up to >>Google for their
>>continued bad behavior. >> >> The resolutions
>>were >>both seen at Apple, and they've already
>>had an impact on Apple's >>willingness to work
>>with us to further improve
>>accessibility. Just >>Â& not the impact anyone
>>but Freedom Scientific was hoping for. >> >>>>
>>But Apple is evil, so it doesn't matter. And
>>Google is awesome, >>so who cares if they do
>>anything
>>accessibly? Right?
>>Right? >> >> >>Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 03,
>>2011 at 06:17:46PM -0500, Ray Foret >>Jr
>>wrote: >>> But, Peter, I ask you. Would you be
>>forever in a war >>camp mode? Just think of the
>>resolution concerning Google and the >>ones
>>concerning Apple. Why the disparity? A fair
>>question I >>think. >>> >>> >>> Sincerely, >>>
>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! >>>>> >>> Now a
>>very proud and happy Mac user!!! >>> >>> Skype
>>name: >>>>> barefootedray >>> >>> Facebook: >>>
>>facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1 >>>>> >>> >>> >>> On
>>Sep 3, 2011, at 3:48 PM, Peter Donahue
>>wrote: >>>>> >>>> Hello Ray and
>>everyone, >>>> >>>> The wording was fine. >>It's
>>the "Let's be grateful" attitude that makes
>>folks >>>> feel >>otherwise. >>>> >>>> Peter
>>Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original >>Message
>>----- >>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>><rforetjr at att.net> >>>> To: >>"Blind Talk
>>Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>
>>Sent: >>Saturday, September 03, 2011 3:23
>>PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] >>Resolution
>>that didn't pass about apple >>>> >>>> >>>> Not
>>with me >>Peter. We need to strongly encourage
>>people, not bitch at them. >>>>>> We need to
>>change the wording of the resolution so that it
>>has >>the desired >>>> effect without being
>>bitchy about it. There are >>times we need to
>>use a >>>> hammer, and other times, a feather
>>will >>do just as well. So, we commend >>>>
>>Google for trying to be >>accessible but bitch
>>at Apple even though they are >>>>
>>more >>accessible than Google? Tell me, is it
>>because Google paid us >>money, >>>> (being a
>>sponsor of our convention) and Apple
>>didn't? >>What kind of outfit >>>> are we when
>>we stoop to that level? >>>> >>>>>> Sorry for
>>the language, but, that's the way it
>>is. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>> The
>>Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! >>>> >>>> Now >>a
>>very proud and happy Mac user!!! >>>> >>>> Skype
>>name: >>>> >>barefootedray >>>> >>>>
>>Facebook: >>>>
>>facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1 >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Peter
>>Donahue >>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Cheryl and
>>everyone, >>>>> >>>>> The >>wording was fine
>>with me. >>>>> >>>>> Peter
>>Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>----- Original Message
>>----- >>>>> From: "cheryl
>>echevarria" >><cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> >>>>>
>>To: "Blind Talk Mailing
>>List" >><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent:
>>Saturday, September 03, 2011 >>12:25 PM >>>>>
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't
>>pass >>about apple >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The issue
>>was the wording of the >>Resolution, if I
>>remember correctly, that >>>>> it was to
>>harsh, >>and for it to pass that we all had to
>>agree on the >>>>> wording. >>>>>>> >>>>> it has
>>nothing to do with the Resolution as a
>>whole, >>but the wording of >>>>> the >>>>>
>>resolution couldn't be passed, >>it can be
>>brought to the floor of >>>>> convention >>>>>
>>next year, >>to be voted on
>>again >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Leading the Way
>>in >>Independent Travel! >>>>> >>>>> Cheryl
>>Echevarria >>>>> >>http://www.echevarriatravel.co
>>m >>>>>
>>631-456-5394 >>>>> >>reservations at echevarriatrave
>>l.com >>>>> >>>>> Affiliated as an >>Independent
>>Contractor with Superior Travel, located
>>in >>>>> >>Baldwin, NY.
>>www.superiortravel.com >>>>> >>>>> Affiliated as
>>an >>Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise
>>& Travel, >>>>> Inc. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----
>>Original Message ----- >>>>> From:
>>"cheryl >>echevarria"
>><cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> >>>>> To: "Blind
>>Talk >>Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>
>>Sent: Saturday, September >>03, 2011 12:58
>>PM >>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Resolution that
>>didn't >>pass about apple >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>
>>Well maybe people on this list >>that voted
>>against it elaborate as to why >>>>>> they voted
>>against >>it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Leading the
>>Way in Independent Travel! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>Cheryl
>>Echevarria >>>>>> >>http://www.echevarriatravel.c
>>om >>>>>>
>>631-456-5394 >>>>>> >>reservations at echevarriatrav
>>el.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Affiliated as
>>an >>Independent Contractor with Superior
>>Travel, located in >>>>>> >>Baldwin, NY.
>>www.superiortravel.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Affiliated
>>as an >>Independent Contractor with Absolute
>>Cruise & Travel, >>>>>>
>>Inc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original
>>Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Ray >>Foret Jr"
>><rforetjr at att.net> >>>>>> To: "Blind Talk
>>Mailing List" >><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>
>>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011
>>4:56 >>PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Bulk]
>>Re: a great article >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah
>>yes, I have a recording of the stream of
>>that >>particular days' >>>>>>> events. I must
>>say, that was quite
>>an >>episode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>Sincerely, >>>>>>> The Constantly >>Barefooted
>>Ray!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now a very proud and
>>happy Mac >>user!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skype
>>name: >>>>>>> barefootedray >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>Facebook: >>>>>>>
>>facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Marsha
>>Drenth >>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An example of
>>not all of us following like >>zombies, at the
>>national >>>>>>>> convention. A resolution
>>about >>apple. Don't quite remember the >>>>>>>>
>>wordage, but >>>>>>>> it >>did not pass. More
>>than half of the floor voted against it. If
>>you >>>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> at the convention
>>you would know what I am >>talking
>>about. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was one of the many
>>who voted >>against the resolution. I didn't
>>think >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> was >>fair, and not
>>something the NFB needed to make an resolution
>>for. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Others are welcome to
>>chime in
>>here... >>>>>>>> >>Marsha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>
>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From:
>>blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org >>[mailto:blindtlk-bo
>>unces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf
>>Of >>Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday,
>>September 01, 2011 10:19 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind
>>Talk Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject:
>>Re: >>[Blindtlk] a great
>>article >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>no point in rehashing
>>the lost funds as they have been forgiven
>>in >>the >>>>>>>> midwest. >>>>>>>> i was the
>>only one to push the issue >>and was blasted for
>>it. it's >>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>> like
>>that >>which make the nfb taste
>>bitter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not all of us >>just
>>follow in line like zombies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>I'd like to see >>more examples of
>>that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bryan
>>Schulz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original
>>Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Marsha >>Drenth"
>><marsha.drenth at gmail.com> >>>>>>>> To: "'Blind
>>Talk Mailing >>List'"
>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday,
>>September 01, >>2011 8:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject:
>>Re: [Blindtlk] a great
>>article >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This
>>thread is very tiring, very >>frustrating and
>>gets us no where. So >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>
>>us >>>>>>>>>>> NFB members never ask the tough
>>questions, and look the >>other way. >>>>>>>>>
>>What >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> the
>>illegal >>behavior your speaking of? I am pretty
>>sure if there was >>>>>>>>> >>any >>>>>>>>>
>>illegal behavior, we just as much any other
>>person >>would ask the >>>>>>>>>
>>"tough" >>>>>>>>> questions. Not all of
>>us >>just follow in line like
>>zombies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If your
>>so >>anti-NFB, why do you hang out here. Your
>>welcome to leave >>>>>>>>> >>any >>>>>>>>> time.
>>We would rather you go away. So our list can
>>go >>back to being >>>>>>>>> constructive and
>>productive. Oh wait that >>is right, we are all
>>lyres, >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> allow
>>illegal >>behavior, and follow like zombies. You
>>can think what >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> want.
>>But this skirting around subjects does nothing.
>>We >>are not >>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>> change
>>our minds about what
>>we >>think. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>Marsha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>
>>From: >>blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>[
>>mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>
>>Behalf Of Bryan >>Schulz >>>>>>>>> Sent:
>>Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>
>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject:
>>Re: >>[Blindtlk] a great
>>article >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> no, i'm not accusing
>>anyone, the event already happened. >>>>>>>>>>>
>>the point is don't ask tough questions unless
>>you have >>thick skin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bryan
>>Schulz >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>----- Original
>>Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "T. Joseph
>>Carter" >><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>
>>To: "Blind Talk Mailing
>>List" >><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> Sent:
>>Thursday, September 01, 2011 >>5:49 PM >>>>>>>>>
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great
>>article >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I see,
>>my mistake. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You >>aren't
>>taking pot shots at the ACB without facts to
>>back it up. >>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>> are
>>taking pot shots at the NFB
>>without >>facts. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It takes
>>a lot of guts to come into an >>organization and
>>start >>>>>>>>>> accusing >>>>>>>>>>
>>its >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> members of vaguely
>>illegal activities without offering >>any
>>specifics >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>
>>evidence. But I'm sure >>doing so will get you
>>all the consideration >>>>>>>>>>
>>you're >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>due. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And with that,
>>I >>think I'm about finished with the
>>discussion. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>Joseph -
>>KF7QZC >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu,
>>Sep 01, >>2011 at 05:36:54PM -0500, Bryan Schulz
>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>no, i'm not talking about the acb but
>>the >>point still
>>applies. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bryan
>>Schulz >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original
>>Message ----- From: "T. >>Joseph
>>Carter" >>>>>>>>>>>
>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> >>To:
>>"Blind Talk Mailing List"
>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>Sent:
>>Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>>
>>Subject: Re: >>[Blindtlk] a great
>>article >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>I >>suggest if that helps you maximize your
>>involvement with and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>benefit >>>>>>>>>>>> from an organization, you
>>find >>another
>>organization. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>though, we >>don't want to go down this road, or
>>at least >>>>>>>>>>>> not in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>fashion. The ACB has in the past allowed
>>its >>members to make >>>>>>>>>>>> baseless,
>>unsupported, and uncontested >>claims of illegal
>>behavior >>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>NFB. >>It was rather off-putting, and I'd have
>>thought so even if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>were >>>>>>>>>>>> not a Federationist! Indeed,
>>it >>seems always to be so, in any >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>organization, whether or >>not I have any
>>affiliation with
>>anybody. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>If there's
>>something new and recent that needs to be
>>discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>the ACB, we should probably do >>it, but in a
>>new thread with the >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>relevant >>>>>>>>>>>> >>details. If it's a
>>rehash of old wrongdoings by former
>>officers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>don't >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> know how >>useful
>>it would be to debate today. It's like
>>discussing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>questionable action taken by Janet Reno >>while
>>she worked for Bill >>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton. Anyone
>>personally >>affected would find it relevant,
>>but >>>>>>>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a
>>whole wouldn't be interested
>>today. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes the
>>bad guys get away with it. Usually when >>the
>>good >>>>>>>>>>>> guys >>>>>>>>>>>> don't stand
>>up to them >>until its too late. But that takes
>>me off >>>>>>>>>>>> on my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>tangent. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph -
>>KF7QZC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at >>03:53:02PM -0500,
>>Bryan Schulz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there should
>>be at least one more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #16. Don't
>>ask tough questions even when a member >>does
>>something >>>>>>>>>>>>> questionable and
>>probably illegal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>Original Message ----- From: "Chris
>>Nusbaum" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>><dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To:
>>"NABS >>list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "Blind Talk
>>list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>;
>>"Gary Legates"
>><gary.legates at comcast.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent:
>>Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02
>>PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] a great
>>article >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > Hi
>>everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I
>>try to learn more about both organizations,
>>I >>have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribed
>>to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> both the Braille >>Monitor and
>>the Braille Forum. The Monitor,
>>as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know, is
>>the Federation (NFB's) publication and
>>the >>Forum is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Council (or ACB's) >>publication. I found a
>>great article in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>July's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forum entitled "Fifteen
>>Ways to Maximize your
>>ACB >>Membership," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fifteen tips on >>how to
>>take advantage of all ACB (or
>>any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>organization, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> for that matter) has to offer. I >>think this
>>could also apply to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>Federation and to NABS or
>>any other special-interest
>>division, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>some good advice. To be >>accurate, I added "or
>>NFB" in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> parentheses
>>to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some parts of the
>>article. I have pasted the >>article
>>below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>thoughts on this? >>I promise I'm not trying to
>>force the ACB down >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throats; in fact, I'm a
>>Federationist in nature, but >>want
>>to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>both. Here is >>the
>>article. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 WAYS
>>TO MAXIMIZE YOUR >>ACB (or NFB)
>>MEMBERSHIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Kenneth Semien
>>Sr. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All too often, people join
>>organizations without >>taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>advantage of the opportunity to truly
>>know >>intricate details of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>mission, and operating practices. This can
>>very >>well result in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>lack >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>participation and could ultimately result in
>>a >>decision to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>forfeit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance
>>your >>life, build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>great >>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationships
>>and >>effectively share personal skills
>>and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> abilities
>>that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make an
>>enormous difference. In >>an effort to
>>encourage you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>explore >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included
>>the >>tips listed below >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you in
>>being all you can be and help you join
>>with >>others whose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complement
>>yours. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Be inquisitive and
>>don't hesitate to
>>ask >>questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Become
>>familiar with the history, >>mission, and
>>purpose by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing it often
>>enough to >>be able to repeat it to
>>others. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>someone may realize that this is the
>>organization >>they have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>looking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>3. Make a personal commitment to identify ways
>>to >>get involved. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Find out
>>who the officers are and >>become acquainted
>>with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them and their roles
>>and >>responsibilities, as well as
>>members >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>observe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actively participating
>>in >>events and projects associated
>>with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>organization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Make your
>>skills >>and abilities known to leaders of
>>your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chapter, >>affiliate, or the
>>president of our organization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>6. >>Make every effort to participate in
>>chapter, state affiliate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>national meetings, seminars, conferences
>>and >>conventions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Inquire
>>about available committees >>you may be able to
>>serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on to assist
>>the >>organization in achieving its goals
>>and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> objectives. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Seek >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to join committees that
>>allow >>you to utilize your skills
>>and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> abilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most effective and
>>efficient >>manner. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8. If you
>>have access to the Internet, sign >>up for
>>up-to-date >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news and announcements
>>from all >>levels of our
>>organization. Ask >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>president >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>member to tell you how to take >>advantage of
>>this option. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Listen to or
>>read >>publications/newsletters distributed
>>by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>organization on all levels. This is one of the
>>best >>ways to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>useful resources, access
>>inspirational stories,
>>scholarships, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>awards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>upcoming >>projects and events. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>10. Identify special-interest >>groups that
>>meet your personal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs. These
>>groups >>provide you the opportunity to network
>>with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>sharing common interests, such as your prior
>>or >>current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>occupation, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>hobbies, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> health concerns and so
>>much more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11. >>Obtain your own
>>copy of the constitution and bylaws
>>to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>agreed-upon operating >>practices and procedures
>>of our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>organization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12. Prepare for
>>future involvement as an officer
>>by >>becoming >>>>>>>>>>>>>> familiar with
>>officer titles and duties. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>13. Participate in conference calls to build
>>your >>knowledge, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such as
>>membership focus calls, periodic >>Office Hours
>>conference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ACB president,
>>committee calls, and >>special-interest
>>group >>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>14. >>Explore the web sites of your chapter,
>>state affiliate and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>national organization. You may
>>locate >>information on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> web
>>site >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>didn't think of inquiring
>>about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>15. Pay your annual
>>dues faithfully and encourage others to
>>do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>more you know and the >>more you become
>>involved, the more you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will begin
>>to >>know that you have joined a
>>phenomenal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>organization >>that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing to grow. Have
>>a >>great ACB (or NFB)
>>adventure! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>Nusbaum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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