[Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Sun Dec 16 19:01:41 UTC 2012

Good afternoon everyone,

    If your husband can get around without relying too much on his vision 
you're welcome to dinner any time. Once inside if folks can get around 
without using a travel aid no problem. We have very bad pathways in our 
complex on which sighted people have been injured. It's for this reason we 
strongly urge blind folks that visit us to use their travel aid.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Constance Canode" <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Peter,

I use my cane always and without fail. My husband has very good usable 
vision and does not feel that he needs a cane for travel. I agree with him. 
So it sounds like only one of us would be welcome to visit your home. I can 
understand not wanting someone knocking over your valuables, but not 
associating with a competent person because they do not use a cane is sad.

Constance Canode
Sent from my I-phone

On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:

> Okay, so, let me see if I've got this straight now.  This woman cannot 
> function without a cane?  Didn't quite pick that up the first time.  As 
> for your home; well, it's your home; but, just one small point.  Suppose a 
> blind person uses neither dog or cane; but, appears to be able to function 
> well not withstanding?  I still reckon you'd do better with pursuation 
> rather than force.  Seems to me that this situation is becoming a little 
> more interesting than a blind woman just not using a cane because just 
> because.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>
> On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:38 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>   The article is called "The Nature of Independence." The person in
>> question is a woman. If we're being unreasonable other chapter members
>> including the president went farther and tried to keep this individual 
>> from
>> joining the chapter. The individual was removed from the call list for
>> meeting notification a situation we learned of and put a stop too. This 
>> is
>> but one of many problems that have plagued our chapter during the year.
>> Please keep us in your prayers that we can begin putting things right 
>> next
>> month when we elect new officers for 2013. As for our home we make the 
>> rules
>> here. If you depend on a travel aid for your independence and can't 
>> function
>> without it if you wish to visit you're expected to use it. That's a non
>> negotiable with us. We'll keep you posted on what happens.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brian Miller" <brianrmiller88 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>
>>
>> Dear Peter,
>>
>> I think Dianne gives some excellent advice here.  Your example of 
>> competent
>> travel, using dog or cane, will do much more than any tough love tactics 
>> you
>> may employ. You can only show this person another way, you can't force 
>> them
>> to embrace it.
>>
>> Being there for this person, even when they make poor choices, all the 
>> while
>> you show him an alternative will go a long way.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Brian Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of pkt52 at aol.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:29 AM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>> Diane - what a kind and logical response!   I love what you
>>> have written!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
>>> To: blinddog3 <blinddog3 at charter.net>; 'Blind Talk Mailing
>>> List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sun, Dec 16, 2012 10:24 am
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> Does anyone remember the article Dr. Jernigan wrote about
>>> this dilemma? The name of the article is escaping me at this
>>> time, but I remember that at the end, the gist of the writing
>>> was summarized by a statement along the lines of "whether
>>> dog, or cane or human arm" the choice belongs to the
>>> individual, and the overall objective is to get where you
>>> need to go and do what you need to do.
>>>
>>> In the NFB, we meet people at all levels. Some are newly
>>> blind, others re blind people who have been sheltered all of
>>> their lives, others are people that are so independent that
>>> they think they could climb a skyscraper and survive. (A
>>> little over the top there, but you know what I mean.)
>>>
>>> Anyway, our job is not to judge them or dictate to them. Our
>>> job is to meet them where they are and do our best to help
>>> them. Whether or not they accept that help is up to them. The
>>> behavior that you are describing is one reason that many
>>> blind people don't want anything to do with the federation.
>>> It sounds to me like the members are refusing their
>>> friendship on the basis of his decision. Do you really think
>>> that is going to help him?
>>>
>>> If one is so uncaring that they would call someone a cab and
>>> send them home at their expense, then why in the world would
>>> they have to take anyone to the emergency room? Call an ambulance.
>>>
>>> With conditional friendship like that, I'm not sure why
>>> anyone would want to visit these members or be a part of the
>>> chapter anyway. He could, incidentally refuse to get into the
>>> cab and ride home at his expense.
>>>
>>> For the record, I think it is a foolish decision myself, but
>>> I wouldn't refuse friendship on that basis, any more than I
>>> would refuse friendship on the basis of whether someone was
>>> too thin or too fat, or of another culture or any number of
>>> other characteristics. When you think about it, maybe
>>> actually being escorted/lead by a few blind people would
>>> teach this guy that he could, in  fact, learn to travel himself.
>>>
>>> Finally, I would just point out that, while there are a good
>>> many sighted people who have a healthy perspective about
>>> blindness, there are some sighted people who have some
>>> ridiculous ideas. It may very well be true that some crazy
>>> neurologist did tell him that a cane might aggravate his
>>> seizure disorder. You just don't know.
>>>
>>> Diane Graves
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:37 AM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>> Peter,
>>> Although I am not an attorney, I am well-versed in the ADA,
>>> and with all due respect, I do not believe the ADA has any
>>> application here as the concept of direct threat, applies to
>>> Title I, covering provisions of employment; not Titles II or
>>> III.  It's a choice by this individual to go out into public
>>> without the use of an aide such as a cane, or guide, but
>>> their choice is sighted guide.  They are not posing a risk to
>>> anyone but themselves, but I can assure you that if this
>>> person was employed, the application might be viable.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:53 AM
>>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List; Daniel Carr; NFBnet Blind
>>> Law Mailing List; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>>
>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>
>>>   An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved
>>> to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is
>>> totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They
>>> recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be
>>> helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event.
>>> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person
>>> showed up without their cane. When later questioned about
>>> this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They
>>> told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors
>>> recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's
>>> having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with
>>> a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact
>>> that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a
>>> cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one
>>> of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident
>>> cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know
>>> well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other
>>> successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself
>>> have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog
>>> depending on the situation.
>>>
>>>   The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready
>>> been told by several members in the area that if they wish to
>>> visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get
>>> from their transportation in to our residence and if
>>> necessary use the cane during their visit.
>>>
>>>   When attempting to reason with the person in question
>>> members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard
>>> all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane
>>> proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists
>>> are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a
>>> travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the
>>> contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we
>>> also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in
>>> the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had
>>> a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their
>>> ability to travel independently and on the importance of
>>> using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if
>>> they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will
>>> call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense
>>> something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and
>>> using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The
>>> last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the
>>> emergency room when we know that an individual has complete
>>> disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It
>>> seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in
>>> this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers
>>> can help us wit this one.
>>>
>>>   We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of
>>> independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we
>>> won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more
>>> effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the
>>> alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly.
>>> Thanks for your help and suggestions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>> "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper."
>>> Isaiah 54:17
>>>
>>> "While for our princes they prepare
>>> In caverns deep a burning snare,
>>> He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
>>> And the dark treachery brought to day."
>>> Anonymous
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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