[Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Mon Dec 17 03:36:58 UTC 2012

If it's whom I'm thinking of, she also left ACB.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Tardif
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:34 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

And I know of at least one person back in Connecticut who was a staunch
Federationist but left because of that rather bitter argument.

Mark Tardif
Nuclear arms will not hold you.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Diane Graves
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:40 AM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

That's it! Thank you ray! I wanted to look it up, but couldn't think of the
name for the life of me. Didn't know where to start.

There was apparently a time in the history of our organization (long before
I joined) when members were giving each other grief about using a dog as
opposed to using a cane. And I know, absolutely know, that that is one
reason some blind people won't join us. I've had people tell me so, and
nothing I could say would convince them that things had changed. They are
convinced that it is still that way and they're sticking to that belief no
matter what.

Diane Graves

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Foret
Jr
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:31 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

The title you are looking for is, "The Nature of independence".

HTH.

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On Dec 16, 2012, at 9:22 AM, Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Does anyone remember the article Dr. Jernigan wrote about this
> dilemma? The name of the article is escaping me at this time, but I
> remember that at the end, the gist of the writing was summarized by a
> statement along the lines of "whether dog, or cane or human arm" the
> choice belongs to the individual, and the overall objective is to get
> where you need to go and do what you need to do.
>
> In the NFB, we meet people at all levels. Some are newly blind, others
> re blind people who have been sheltered all of their lives, others are
> people that are so independent that they think they could climb a
> skyscraper and survive. (A little over the top there, but you know
> what I mean.)
>
> Anyway, our job is not to judge them or dictate to them. Our job is to
> meet them where they are and do our best to help them. Whether or not
> they accept that help is up to them. The behavior that you are
> describing is one reason that many blind people don't want anything to
> do with the federation.  It sounds to me like the members are refusing
> their friendship on the basis of his decision. Do you really think that is
going to help him?
>
> If one is so uncaring that they would call someone a cab and send them
> home at their expense, then why in the world would they have to take
> anyone to the emergency room? Call an ambulance.
>
> With conditional friendship like that, I'm not sure why anyone would
> want to visit these members or be a part of the chapter anyway. He
> could, incidentally refuse to get into the cab and ride home at his
expense.
>
> For the record, I think it is a foolish decision myself, but I
> wouldn't refuse friendship on that basis, any more than I would refuse
> friendship on the basis of whether someone was too thin or too fat, or
> of another culture or any number of other characteristics. When you
> think about it, maybe actually being escorted/lead by a few blind
> people would teach this guy that he could, in  fact, learn to travel
himself.
>
> Finally, I would just point out that, while there are a good many
> sighted people who have a healthy perspective about blindness, there
> are some sighted people who have some ridiculous ideas. It may very
> well be true that some crazy neurologist did tell him that a cane
> might aggravate his seizure disorder. You just don't know.
>
> Diane Graves
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [ :blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
> Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:37 AM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
> Peter,
> Although I am not an attorney, I am well-versed in the ADA, and with
> all due respect, I do not believe the ADA has any application here as
> the concept of direct threat, applies to Title I, covering provisions
> of employment; not Titles II or III.  It's a choice by this individual
> to go out into public without the use of an aide such as a cane, or
> guide, but their choice is sighted guide.  They are not posing a risk
> to anyone but themselves, but I can assure you that if this person was
> employed, the application might be viable.
>
> Steve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:53 AM
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List; Daniel Carr; NFBnet Blind Law
> Mailing List; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>
> Good morning everyone,
>
>    An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San
> Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind
> and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our
> Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we
used for this event.
> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up
> without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began
> giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist
> and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due
> to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins
> along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact
> that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with
> another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers
> I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and
> is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly
> met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I
> myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog
depending on the situation.
>
>    The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told
> by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she
> must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in
> to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit.
>
>    When attempting to reason with the person in question members have
> been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book
> why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been
> told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not
> the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the
> contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know
> not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities
> of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in
> their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently
> and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has
> been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane
> we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense
> something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their
> cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to
> have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an
> individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as
> negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply
> in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help
us wit this one.
>
>    We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence
> and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them
> from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause
> if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use
> them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
>
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper."
> Isaiah 54:17
>
> "While for our princes they prepare
> In caverns deep a burning snare,
> He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
> And the dark treachery brought to day."
> Anonymous
>
>
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