[Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THEBLIND BYFAILINGTOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 01:36:22 UTC 2012
I agree. Although it's annoying to have to pay higher fairs just
because you can't use the Web site (and I believe it is important
that Southwest make their site accessible,) this isn't
discriminatory, as people who don't have access to the Internet
for whatever reason, regardless of their vision or lack thereof,
will have to pay these fees as well.
I recall a discussion last year about Southwest and
accessibility in which Peter Donahue expressed some very strong
feelings objecting to the practices of Southwest. He wrote a
message to us after he had contacted Southwest's customer service
department and had expressed his feelings to them. I wonder if
he got anywhere with them.
Chris
"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists. If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
To: <gwunder at earthlink.net>, "'Blind Talk Mailing List'"
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:15:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THEBLIND
BYFAILINGTOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
Gary:
You initially left out the alternative of using a reader. I
still consider
that a viable alternative in many instances though, as you point
out, not
all. And I think it can be equally argued that such things as
higher fares
are just part of the cost of doing business as a blind person; no
one ever
said blindness wasn't a nuisance. A similar thing happens when
one uses a
guide dog and must rent an apartment. While one can argue that
charging a
pet deposit for a guide dog is and should be illegal, I know one
former dog
guide owner who strongly felt that he should pay the pet deposit
and that
this was just part of the cost of doing business as a blind
person who chose
to use a guide dog.
In other words, when is something just one of the nuisances of
blindness and
when is it truly discriminatory? In my own mind, while I might
grumble, I
believe the higher fares from using telephone personnel to make
reservations
might well just be a cost of doing business as a blind person.
However,
requiring us to make arrangements 24 hours in advance and
segregating our
seating because we don't get the "letter" seats truly is
discriminatory
because it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual burden
Southwest
incurs by carrying a blind person which, in reality, is no
different than
that incurred carrying a sighted person.
You may see this as nit-picking. But of such nits are both a
philosophy of
blindness and legal precedent made.
Also, let me hasten to add that this is a different issue from
inaccessible
home appliances or office equipment as it is also different from
the issue
of those ever-changing keycard or credit card interfaces that was
recently
written of on the R&D Committee list. Those are true threats!
Your point is well-taken that we try to negotiate and work out
something
reasonable long before we ever sue. Perhaps we don't publicize
this enough.
But often parties to the negotiations don't want publicity until
an
agreement is reached if that's possible.
Perhaps the Monitor should do a case study of an issue wherein
negotiations
were tried and failed leading to suit or, perhaps, in which
negotiations
were successful, obviating the need for a lawsuit. And no; I'm
not
volunteering to write such an article. (huge grin)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Wunder
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 6:52 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND
BYFAILINGTOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
One problem, of course, is that these devices are offered as an
alternative
to hiring personnel to talk with us and help us make choices. If
there is no
way for us to do a thing, there is no discrimination, but if a
device can be
made accessible but simply is not, then we allow our own
exclusion by not
trying to press for equal access.
I think there is one other point here. I've never seen a
Federation action
commenced in court where first a negotiated settlement wasn't
tried and
tried and tried. It is often accepted that our society is
lawsuit happy, but
my experience, at least as far as we are concerned, is that the
suit is the
last chance we have to make a difference. We didn't start by
suing AOL or
Target or the National Council of Bar Examiners. There were
clear efforts to
get the attention of their brass and often our work at making
contact was
met with the determined resolution to keep us away from anyone
who could
make a decision. Even in the case of the car companies and cars
too quiet to
hear, we were not initially welcomed by the companies with open
arms. They
used their PR people to keep us away from their technicians,
their managers,
and their sound experts. Had we not worked on a law, we would
not have had
the chance to build the relationships that lead to it. Equally
true is that
if we were simply sue happy, we'd have filed suit and still be
litigating,
rather than working on implementing regulations to make our
travel safer.
I hate war, but I recognize that a country that openly commits it
will never
go to war has told his would-be aggressors they will find easy
victory.
One last thought. What I can usually accept as a reasonable
accommodation by
relying on another person soon becomes unworkable. Airlines are
a good
example. Electronic ticket purchasing was at first a
convenience. Now listen
on the phone and learn that there are special fares available
only for those
who check-in online. Look at the studies and find how
infrequently blind
travelers, even when they say they are blind and cannot use the
online
systems, are offered fares higher than those available online.
Look at the
seating policy on Southwest where we are "invited" to check-in 24
hours
ahead of our flight, but if you don't do that, you are not in the
preferential boarding group they designate with letters. At this
point my
alternative technique isn't much of an alternative so I start
pressing for
an accessible website. The service that starts only as
entertainment soon
becomes part of a homework assignment for school and a way to
distribute
educational materials on the job. The distinction between what
is
entertainment and what is absolutely critical is harder and
harder to make
as televisions become computers and computers become any kind of
device one
can imagine. Who would have thought that we'd arrive at a time
when someone
would select a telephone based on the radio and television
content it would
make available.
At our last Missouri board meeting, I asked how many people
routinely hire
readers. Of the thirty people there, three said they did. I
asked about
volunteers and got nothing in response. So, whether for good or
ill, many of
us do not have or do not avail ourselves of sighted assistance.
This
wouldn't work for me with the print that passes through my
office, but
apparently it works for others and the answer has to be
accessible hardware
and software to read mail, pay bills, and fill out the forms that
are
required to get along in the world.
Warmly,
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:01 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND
BYFAILINGTOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
hi,
this is a main problem i see with blind people; they are too
proud/egotistical to admit they need help.
i guarantee you like at a McDonald's location, one of the workers
there
wouldn't mind saying what movies they have on hand maybe unless
it was high
noon and all lines were 4-5 customers deep.
it could actually go smoother as they probably know how to
quickly work the
machine and they feel glad to help.
so you say "yes, that one sounds good, thanks" then swipe your
card.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Foret Jr
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND
BY
FAILINGTOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
Uh, in which case, how would you propose to enter the choices
you want? I
still maintain the action is correct; and, I want to make my own
choices.
Why should you not?
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
Skype name:
barefootedray
Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
On Jan 15, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote:
hi,
this is not like using an atm.
all you have to do is swipe your card and don't have to punch in
your
pin.
other than being able to know what the choices are, the
accessibility
challenge is the same as the airport terminal case which was
lost.
if there is one that should be accessible, i would say the
airport
terminal is more important.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: Marion Gwizdala
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND
BY
FAILING TOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
Bryan,
There is not an architect in the United States who would
design a
building with steps and would not consider designing an
alternative
method
of accessing the building. Similarly, no architect would
design this
building with doorways too narrow to accommodate a wheelchair.
the
reason
these accessible design features are so globally implemented
into
buildings
is due to the advocacy of those who use wheelchairs. I suppose
one
could
argue that someone else could go into the building to conduct
the
business
for the wheelchair user, just as you argue that someone else
can
complete
the transaction at Red Box for the blind. The law defines
discrimination, in
part, as an unequal benefit and this is certainly unequal.
I believe it is reasonable for the blind to expect that
digital
architecture is accessible to us. law suits are one of the
ways these
things
are accomplished. In our system of justice known as case law,
the
courts
are responsible for interpreting just what a particular law
actually
means
and defining its practical implementation. It is due time that
those
responsible for designing digital architecture be held
responsible for
the
simple features of audible output. Until companies understand
that
blind
people are consumers, we will continue to be unequal.
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND
BY
FAILING
TOPROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
hi,
so if someone had to take the guy to the location anyway, why
is he so
miffed about the machine?
why not sue the film company for leaving out descriptions as
well?
people today are very sue happy.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: David Andrews
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:54 AM
Subject: [Blindtlk] REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND BY
FAILING
TO
PROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE KIOSKS
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 12, 2012
CONTACTS: Bryan Bashin, CEO, Lighthouse for the
Blind (415) 694-7346 Lisamaria Martinez,
plaintiff (510) 289-2577 Michael Nunez of
Disability Rights Advocates (510) 665-8644 Jay
Koslofsky of Law Offices of Jay Koslofsky (510) 280-5627
REDBOX DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE BLIND BY
FAILING TO PROVIDE ACCESSIBLE SELF-SERVICE
KIOSKS Oakland, CA - January 12, 20012 - Recent
technological advances are sweeping the nattion,
changing the way people buy products and
services. Self-service kiosks with automated,
touch-screen interfaces now allow people to
bank, shop, and conduct a wide range of
transactions independently, without the
assistance of a clerk. This technology is fast
becoming an integral part of our every day
lives. Although these technologies can make our
lives easier, Redbox, a video rental giant, has
chosen to use self-service kiosks with
touch-screen controls that exclude the blind
from using its services. Blind Californians
cannot use touch-screen kiosks that offer only
visually-based controls. A class action lawsuit
filed today in the United States District Court
for the Northern District of California
challenges Redboxâ?Ts inaccessible kiosks. The
lawsuit is the first of its kind in the country.
The suit is brought by the Lighthouse for the
Blind and Visually Impaired, as well as five
blind individuals, on behalf of blind and
visually impaired people throughout
California. Plaintiffs are represented by
Disability Rights Advocates (â?oDRAâ?·), a
non-profit disability rights legal center
headquartered in Berkeley, California that
specializes in high-impact cases on behalf of
people with disabilities. Plaintiffs are also
represented by the Law Offices of Jay Koslofsky;
Mr. Koslofsky is an experienced civil rights
attorney. Redbox has a major share of the video
rental market. Redbox DVD rentals account for
approximately 34% of the DVD rental market
nationwide. According to Redbox, almost 60
million videos are rented from its kiosks
nationally each month. Redbox kiosks can be
found at thousands of businesses throughout
California including Save Mart, which is a
business that is also named as a defendant in
the lawsuit. For generations, blind and visually
impaired people have watched and enjoyed movies
as an ordinary part of daily life. Blind people
with some remaining vision may watch films on
their own or with sighted friends and family who
can describe the details and actions of a film.
In addition, many blind people enjoy watching
dialogue driven films. Plaintiff Lisamaria
Martinez is a legally blind resident of Union
City, California. â?·I love watching movies with
my husband and son and would like to
independently rent movies for my family at
Redboxes,â?· said Lisamaria Martinez. Plaintiff
Joshua Saunders is a legally blind resident of
El Cerrito, California who enjoys watching
movies with friends and family. â?oIâ?Tm not
asking for the world here but simply for the
ability to rent DVDs from Redboxes just like
everyone else can,â?· said Joshua Saunders.
Redboxâ?Ts inaccessible touch-screen kiosks shut
out a large and growing community of blind
Californians. It is estimated that 100,000
Californians are legally blind and as the
population continues to age, the number of
adults with vision loss will increase. The
technology exists to make self-service kiosks
accessible to the blind. Accessible ATMs and
iPhones make use of tactile controls and/or
screen reading software that enables blind
people to use these devices. â?oA lack of
accessibility in newly emerging forms of
commerce is a symptom of the overall growing
technological divide that blind people
experience when companies fail to build in
accessible features at the onset,â?· said Bryan
Bashin, Executive Director/CEO of the Lighthouse
for the Blind and Visually Impaired.
â?oTechnology is a double edged sword. It has
the power to enable millions, but it can disable
many Americans far more than it enables them if
accessibility is not built into technology at
the beginning,â?· said Jay Koslofsky,
Plaintiffsâ?T attorney of the Law Offices of Jay
Koslofsky. â?oRedbox is shutting out thousands
of Californians from its services because it
refuses to make its technology accessible to
blind consumers,â?· said Michael Nunez,
Plaintiffsâ?T attorney of Disability Rights
Advocates. About Lighthouse for the Blind and
Visually Impaired The Lighthouse for the Blind
and Visually Impaired, a non-profit corporation,
is one of Californiaâ?Ts oldest organizations
serving the blind and visually impaired
community. The Lighthouse is dedicated to
aiding blind and visually impaired individuals
in leading productive, enriching, and
independent lives. About Disability Rights
Advocates (DRA) Disability Rights Advocates is a
non-profit legal center which, for nearly twenty
years, has specialized in high-impact class
action litigation on behalf of people with all
types of disabilities. DRA litigates nationally
and has offices in New York City and Berkeley,
California. About Law Offices of Jay Koslofsky
Jay Koslofsky is an attorney in private practice
with more than 30 years of experience. He
specializes in civil rights cases and class action litigation.
###
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