[Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organizationofthe blind?

Thu Jan 19 06:56:17 UTC 2012

Mike, your point is well taken.  I suspect that our thinking is more alike than perhaps our words might indicate.  Good food for thought there.

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1

On Jan 18, 2012, at 11:44 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:

> Ray:
> 
> In fact, your outline below is pretty-much the way the project is
> developing. Initially, the good folks at Virginia Tech were designing a
> system that, in effect, pretty-much drove the car. Dr. Maurer made it clear
> to them that we, the blind, should be in control. We're not completely there
> yet but we have far more control than we would have without his insistence
> that the idea was for the blind person to actually make decisions and drive.
> 
> In fact, trying to figure out how to acquire information in sufficient
> detail quickly enough to accomplish the driving task is a good fraction of
> what's involved with the project.
> 
> I'm going to surprise you, I think: I'm not sure but that you're being a bit
> unfair in asking what happens when the technology fails. While a legitimate
> question, it might well be asked of the sighted also. Usually the result is
> an accident. While it might seem that we are more vulnerable, in reality,
> most people can only watch the accident happening.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:03 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organizationofthe
> blind?
> 
> Well, Mike, once again, you and I agree completely.  Look, I'm all for the
> blind drivable car; however, I question the direction we seem to be taking
> with it.  I'm not saying don't rely on the technology; but, we need to
> seriously ask ourselves this.  What will we do when (not if mind you but
> when) the technology fails?  I'm not going to name names here; but, once I
> asked this question and got all but accused of being a trator.  No, please
> don't ask me to tell who it was; for if so, I shan't.  
> 
> I feel that we need to take a different approach with this.  I'd like to see
> a solution that doesn't rely so much on the technology.  As I view the
> picture, it's not the technology which will allow a lbind person to drive.
> It's a matter of getting information.  So, these are the points from which I
> would start.
> 
> 1.  How much information is so much information that a quick decition cannot
> be made while driving?
> 
> 2.  How little information is too little to make a quick decition while
> driving?
> 
> 3.  How can the right ammount of information be aquired and how can it be
> done as simply as possible?  I fear that too much reliance on the technology
> alone will truly set back the goal of a blind person driving.  In short, do
> not rely only on the technology.  Find better alternative ways of getting
> the information you need.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
> 
> Facebook:
> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:59 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
> 
>> Debbie:
>> 
>> I'm not Bryan, but ...
>> 
>> I am concerned that any time anyone expresses skepticism re the
>> blind-drivable car, he/she is automatically accused of not having faith,
> of
>> not being visionary, of not daring to dream, etc. Well, just as there are
>> plenty of humanists and atheists who are good peple and who have
> contributed
>> much to this country (the protests of the religious to the contrary
>> notwithstanding), there are many skeptics (including me) who are loyal
>> Federationists but who at the very least think that in our enthusiasm for
>> the blind-drivable car, we are foolishly minimizing the difficulties (most
>> but not all of which are social/legal rather than technical). We shouldn't
>> be accused of lack of orthodoxy or disloyalty simply because we choose to
>> see the cup as half-empty rather than half-full.
>> 
>> Although I remain skeptical that the blind-drivable car will come to
>> fruition in my lifetime (I'm ... lessee ... 63), I think the research may
>> have many other benefits and ... I could be wrong. But I think we, the
> NFB,
>> aren't putting *nearly* the resources and thought into other aspects of
> the
>> problem such as legal and social impediments to blind-drivable cars that
> we
>> should be doing. To me, that's not nay-saying; that's common sense. And we
>> haven't even considered the problem of what we are to do when we reach our
>> destinations, still ignorant im many cases of the environment we will
> face.
>> 
>> Part of my difficulty is that, even in the realm of science fiction, I
>> expect the universe to be logically worked-out so that there are no
> logical
>> inconsistencies and such that everything implies or can be extrapolated
> from
>> everything else. I think we should plan foreign policy, domestic policy
> and
>> everything else with this consistency in mind. I fear me greatly that we
> of
>> NFB aren't doing this wrt the blind-drivable car.
>> 
>> Bottom line: we need both optimists and dreamers and pessimists that say:
>> "hey! Wait a minute!" in order to craft the wisest policies.
>> 
>> What would I do differently? Not much. But I think we're going to have to
>> put *far* more effort into making software and devices than our leadership
>> and most of the membership believes. We're beginning to discuss this on
> the
>> Computer Science list and in the R&D Committee.
>> 
>> In summation, I think we should proceed full speed ahead. But I think we
>> should have a very clear-eyed, gloss-over-nothing view of what we're
>> tackling.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Debbie Wunder
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:59 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organizationofthe
>> blind?
>> 
>> Hi, well it seems to me if explorers before us did not believe in flight, 
>> telegraph, telephone, penecillan etc... where would we be?
>> 
>> I am interested to hear what your thoughts are about what our goals shold 
>> be?
>> 
>> Debbie
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organizationofthe 
>> blind?
>> 
>> 
>>> hi,
>>> 
>>> there's a difference in shooting for goals and waiting for pie in the sky
> 
>>> technology.
>>> 
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: Sheila Leigland
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization ofthe
>> 
>>> blind?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello all, I've heard about doses of reality. If I and my husband had 
>>> bought in to this kind of logic, we never would have gone to college, 
>>> gotten married, raised our son, and worked. If I had listened to the 
>>> advice of everyone we wouldn't have taken ourselves and our son to the
> nfb
>> 
>>> convention in 1996 from Montana by train and went to disneyland without 
>>> sighted assistance our son was eight at the time so although he could see
> 
>>> we were very much in control of the situation. Dreams and goals can be 
>>> crushed by to much so called reality. It doesn't mean that we don't try
> to
>> 
>>> plan out things but we aren't afraid to try.
>>> 
>>> sheila leigland
>>> 
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>> 
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>> et
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>> 
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>> nk.net 
>> 
>> 
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