[Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization ofthe blind?

Sat Jan 21 16:49:49 UTC 2012

I agree, Dave! I think what Mark Riccobono told me in an 
interview I did with him about the Blind Driver Challenge at the 
2011 NFB of Maryland convention sums it up.  Here's what he said: 
"A lot of people ask me, "What are you going to do with that 
tricky overpass on Route 95?" The truth is, we don't know; we're 
still in the Kitty-Hawk phase of engineering.  Who knows; maybe 
it's not realistic.  But it's also not realistic at this point to 
say that it can't be done."

Chris

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:21:04 -0600
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an	
organization ofthe	blind?

Ray:

I think you and Mike have asked some important questions.  
However,
like with most things, it is a matter of balance.  Without a 
dream,
we won't accomplish much.  On the other hand that dream shouldn't
uuuuuuuuhhhhhmmmmmmmm blind us to reality either.  I think we 
need to
try this and see where it will go.  It is to early to tear it 
down
because it might not work.  Yes, there are social and legal
implications that need to be explored, but I think we need to 
have
technology that is better developed first.  You don't take that 
stuff
on before you have something that works, and works well.

Often it is not what we say -- but how we say it.

Dave

At 11:03 PM 1/18/2012, you wrote:
Well, Mike, once again, you and I agree completely.  Look, I'm 
all
for the blind drivable car; however, I question the direction we
seem to be taking with it.  I'm not saying don't rely on the
technology; but, we need to seriously ask ourselves this.  What 
will
we do when (not if mind you but when) the technology fails?  I'm 
not
going to name names here; but, once I asked this question and got
all but accused of being a trator.  No, please don't ask me to 
tell
who it was; for if so, I shan't.

I feel that we need to take a different approach with this.  I'd
like to see a solution that doesn't rely so much on the
technology.  As I view the picture, it's not the technology which
will allow a lbind person to drive.  It's a matter of getting
information.  So, these are the points from which I would start.

1.  How much information is so much information that a quick
decition cannot be made while driving?

2.  How little information is too little to make a quick decition
while driving?

3.  How can the right ammount of information be aquired and how 
can
it be done as simply as possible?  I fear that too much reliance 
on
the technology alone will truly set back the goal of a blind 
person
driving.  In short, do not rely only on the technology.  Find 
better
alternative ways of getting the information you need.

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1

On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:59 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:

 Debbie:

 I'm not Bryan, but ...

 I am concerned that any time anyone expresses skepticism re the
 blind-drivable car, he/she is automatically accused of not 
having faith, of
 not being visionary, of not daring to dream, etc.  Well, just as 
there are
 plenty of humanists and atheists who are good peple and who have
 contributed
 much to this country (the protests of the religious to the 
contrary
 notwithstanding), there are many skeptics (including me) who are 
loyal
 Federationists but who at the very least think that in our 
enthusiasm for
 the blind-drivable car, we are foolishly minimizing the 
difficulties (most
 but not all of which are social/legal rather than technical).  
We shouldn't
 be accused of lack of orthodoxy or disloyalty simply because we 
choose to
 see the cup as half-empty rather than half-full.

 Although I remain skeptical that the blind-drivable car will 
come to
 fruition in my lifetime (I'm ...  lessee ...  63), I think the 
research may
 have many other benefits and ...  I could be wrong.  But I think 
we, the NFB,
 aren't putting *nearly* the resources and thought into other 
aspects of the
 problem such as legal and social impediments to blind-drivable 
cars that we
 should be doing.  To me, that's not nay-saying; that's common 
sense.  And we
 haven't even considered the problem of what we are to do when we 
reach our
 destinations, still ignorant im many cases of the environment we 
will face.

 Part of my difficulty is that, even in the realm of science 
fiction, I
 expect the universe to be logically worked-out so that there are 
no logical
 inconsistencies and such that everything implies or can be
 extrapolated from
 everything else.  I think we should plan foreign policy, 
domestic policy and
 everything else with this consistency in mind.  I fear me 
greatly that we of
 NFB aren't doing this wrt the blind-drivable car.

 Bottom line: we need both optimists and dreamers and pessimists 
that say:
 "hey! Wait a minute!" in order to craft the wisest policies.

 What would I do differently? Not much.  But I think we're going 
to have to
 put *far* more effort into making software and devices than our 
leadership
 and most of the membership believes.  We're beginning to discuss 
this on the
 Computer Science list and in the R&D Committee.

 In summation, I think we should proceed full speed ahead.  But I 
think we
 should have a very clear-eyed, gloss-over-nothing view of what 
we're
 tackling.

 Mike

 -----Original Message-----
 From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Debbie Wunder
 Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:59 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an 
organizationofthe
 blind?

 Hi, well it seems to me if explorers before us did not believe 
in flight,
 telegraph, telephone, penecillan etc...  where would we be?

 I am interested to hear what your thoughts are about what our 
goals shold
 be?

 Debbie
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
 To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an 
organizationofthe
 blind?

 hi,

 there's a difference in shooting for goals and waiting for pie 
in the sky
 technology.

 Bryan Schulz

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Sheila Leigland
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an 
organization ofthe

 blind?

 Hello all, I've heard about doses of reality.  If I and my 
husband had
 bought in to this kind of logic, we never would have gone to 
college,
 gotten married, raised our son, and worked.  If I had listened 
to the
 advice of everyone we wouldn't have taken ourselves and our son 
to the nfb

 convention in 1996 from Montana by train and went to disneyland 
without
 sighted assistance our son was eight at the time so although he 
could see
 we were very much in control of the situation.  Dreams and goals 
can be
 crushed by to much so called reality.  It doesn't mean that we 
don't try to

 plan out things but we aren't afraid to try.

 sheila leigland

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