[Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe blind?

David Evans drevans at bellsouth.net
Sun Jan 22 21:49:45 UTC 2012 

Dear Mike,

The vehicles are already here.
I have seen the ARMY 2.5 ton truck driving around the test track being 
guided by its sensors and computer programming and dodging human beings that 
would dart out on to the track to test the sensors.
The military does not tell the Public everything it is doing and what it 
plans to do or even what it has available even when it already has it.
I worked on the F-117 Stealth Fighter program, back in the early 70's, and 
the darn thing was flying for almost 15 years before the Public was told 
about it.
The military needs such vehicles to replace humans in the very dangerous 
missions of resupply.
Instead of 30 ARMY truck drivers possibly being killed or captured, these 
vehicles will be able to operate independently or with very limited human 
supervision on the road.
The mission is to save lives and to get the materials where they need to go.
Like all things the military has, there will be spin offs and personnel 
trained to fix them and operate them.
Given time, this technology will trickle down to the Public and even the 
Blind at some point.
Not many people ever heard of G.P.S. before the First Gulf War.  So many 
military personnel were exposed to it, that were week en pilots, sailors and 
off-roaders, that there was a instant demand for the technology for Private 
use after the war.
This lead to an upsurge in the knowledge and use of G.P.S. navigation 
equipment and the pressure for the military to allow greater accuracy.
The military did not want to do it, but the cat was out of the bag and the 
demand won out.
I think we will see that same happen here.
By the way I saw that 2.5 ton truck performing its tricks some 8 years ago. 
I bet they have moved on from there.  We will see.

David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack..

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe 
blind?


> David:
>
> I grant everything you say below. I know the military is hot-to-trot on
> autonomous vehicles. However, if you've ever been involved with a military
> convoy, you know that they pretty-much make their own rules, driving 
> through
> stop-lights and yield signs and just daring people to get out of their 
> way.
> That's frankly a lot easier than cars having to make a plethora of 
> decisions
> involving the unexpected on the nation's highways and byways. I don't 
> think
> we'll come anywhere near the 2015 target.
>
> And yes, I've read "Wired for War". While much progress on automated 
> weapons
> systems and vehicles has been made, we're a long way from fool-proof
> systems. I remember one person quoted in the book saying something to the
> effect that with current software practices and knowledge, the first thing 
> a
> military robot will do is go insane when it's fired up! We haven't 
> mastered
> the complexities of robot interaction yet, especially involving the
> unexpected.
>
> That said, I acknowledge that if one thinks *too* far ahead and sets the
> thought in stone, one is liable to make serious errors, if for no other
> reason than that the situation changes. Nevertheless, I still firmly 
> believe
> that we have to start thinking about the other problems lest we end up in 
> a
> situation wherein the technology comeds upon us and we haven't even begun 
> to
> plan for its implementation.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of David Evans
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:19 AM
> To: gwunder at earthlink.net; Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe
> blind?
>
> Dear Gary,
>
> When I was in training for the Olympics, back in 1967-8, my coach reminded
> me that you take it one hurdle at a time and don't get ahead of yourself.
> If you are thinking about the 10 TH. hurdle and not the one in front of 
> you,
>
> you may wind up knocking hurdles down, but losing speed and time in the
> process.   Within a hurdle race, where there are say 10 hurdles to get 
> past,
>
> there are really 10 smaller, separate races that you must run and it is 
> this
>
> combination of small short races that leads to victory at the finish line.
> If you crash into the hurdles, instead of getting over them cleanly and
> neatly, the race is going to either be lost or take more time than you 
> want
> it too.
>
> I am an engineer also and have contributed concept papers to both NASA and
> DARPA in the past.
> I have written about automated cars and what we can expect to see in the
> future.
> Cars that can drive themselves are already here and it is the Military 
> that
> is pushing the hardest for them.
> They are pushing to have autonomist vehicles in military service by the 
> year
>
> 2015.
> Vehicles in the future will communicate with each other wirelessly and 
> will
> know just where each of the other vehicles around them is planning to go 
> and
>
> will be able to coordinate their movements to avoid hitting each other.
> Chevy has already built and demonstrated one of these cars 2 years ago at
> the Detroit Auto show and Al Roper, of the "Today show"  took it for a 
> drive
>
> around the parking lot with no one at the wheel.
> Cars will be able to drive themselves and likely have the option to let a
> human driver drive them, if they want to, and that could and likely would
> include a Blind driver with special sensor packages in place.
> The question is why would you drive the car yourself if the car can do it
> for you?  For your own enjoyment?  For your own ego?  Just because you 
> can?
> The grand hope is that the automated cars will be safer and less prone to
> accidents and safe human lives.
> A military commander will be able to order a soldier to take or program a
> number of vehicles for a mission and then either ride along or monitor 
> from
> a distance the formation as it goes about is work.  If a attack takes 
> place
> the formation can defend itself, or run away and meet later at a set point
> that is safe.  No humans are in danger lost or captured.
>
> As with most things dealing with the future, what we envision and what we
> get are sometimes two different things.  Sometimes they are better than we
> thought and sometimes they will leave something to be desired, we shall 
> have
>
> to wait and see.
>
> David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
>
> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe
> blind?
>
>
>> One other unanswerable question at this point: If being able to drive
>> opens
>> new employment possibilities, will rehab funds be used to subsidize the
>> purchase and production of cars the blind can drive? How many of us
>> expressed doubt about whether the first Braille notetakers would be 
>> funded
>> given their voice competitors cost $900 and they cost $4,000. Braille,
>> however, provided sufficient benefits to justify the extra cost. Again, 
>> we
>> just don't know.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:57 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to joinanorganization ofthe
>> blind?
>>
>> Unanswerable question as we are not clairvoyant.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:04, "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> if it is ever actually mass produced, will you or the average blind
>>> person
>> be able to add  the equivalent of a house payment on top of your current
>> situation if it is even legally possible to drive?
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>  From: Marion Gwizdala
>>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:46 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join anorganization 
>>> ofthe
>> blind?
>>>
>>>
>>>  Bryan,
>>>      Well, can you please tell us what that difference would be?
>> Furthermore,
>>>  the comment you make asserts we are "waiting" for this technology. The
>> fact
>>>  of the matter is that we are not waiting for it, we are creating it. In
>>>  spite of the fact that a blind person has already demonstrated that
>> driving
>>>  a vehicle independently is not only a dream but a reality, it seems as
>>> if
>>
>>>  you don't believe the objective evidence. By the way, the footage of a
>> man
>>>  walking on the moon was filmed in the desert in Arizona.
>>>
>>>  Fraternally yours,
>>>  Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>  From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>>  To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:06 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization
>>> ofthe
>>
>>>  blind?
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> there's a difference in shooting for goals and waiting for pie in the
>>>> sky
>>
>>>> technology.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: Sheila Leigland
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization
>>>> ofthe
>>
>>>> blind?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all, I've heard about doses of reality. If I and my husband had
>>>> bought in to this kind of logic, we never would have gone to college,
>>>> gotten married, raised our son, and worked. If I had listened to the
>>>> advice of everyone we wouldn't have taken ourselves and our son to the
>> nfb
>>>> convention in 1996 from Montana by train and went to disneyland without
>>>> sighted assistance our son was eight at the time so although he could
>>>> see
>>
>>>> we were very much in control of the situation. Dreams and goals can be
>>>> crushed by to much so called reality. It doesn't mean that we don't try
>> to
>>>> plan out things but we aren't afraid to try.
>>>>
>>>> sheila leigland
>>>>
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>> et
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>>>
>>>
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