[Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe blind?

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Sun Jan 22 22:36:07 UTC 2012 

Yup; we'll see.

Incidentally, I knew about GPS in 1980 and remember the Transit Navy
satellites in the late 1950's or early 1960's that were launched to provide
satellite-guided navigation, an early incarnation of GPS.

I just suspect there will be more problems to autonomous vehicles than
anyone anticipates.

BTW, for those who think SF scenarios come true, how come no SF writer from
Asimov with his "multi-vac" onward anticipated spam? (mischievous grin)

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Evans
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 1:50 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe
blind?


Dear Mike,

The vehicles are already here.
I have seen the ARMY 2.5 ton truck driving around the test track being
guided by its sensors and computer programming and dodging human beings that
would dart out on to the track to test the sensors.
The military does not tell the Public everything it is doing and what it
plans to do or even what it has available even when it already has it.
I worked on the F-117 Stealth Fighter program, back in the early 70's, and
the darn thing was flying for almost 15 years before the Public was told
about it.
The military needs such vehicles to replace humans in the very dangerous
missions of resupply.
Instead of 30 ARMY truck drivers possibly being killed or captured, these
vehicles will be able to operate independently or with very limited human
supervision on the road.
The mission is to save lives and to get the materials where they need to go.
Like all things the military has, there will be spin offs and personnel
trained to fix them and operate them.
Given time, this technology will trickle down to the Public and even the
Blind at some point.
Not many people ever heard of G.P.S. before the First Gulf War.  So many
military personnel were exposed to it, that were week en pilots, sailors and
off-roaders, that there was a instant demand for the technology for Private
use after the war.
This lead to an upsurge in the knowledge and use of G.P.S. navigation
equipment and the pressure for the military to allow greater accuracy.
The military did not want to do it, but the cat was out of the bag and the
demand won out.
I think we will see that same happen here.
By the way I saw that 2.5 ton truck performing its tricks some 8 years ago. 
I bet they have moved on from there.  We will see.

David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack..

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe
blind?


> David:
>
> I grant everything you say below. I know the military is hot-to-trot 
> on autonomous vehicles. However, if you've ever been involved with a 
> military convoy, you know that they pretty-much make their own rules, 
> driving through stop-lights and yield signs and just daring people to 
> get out of their way.
> That's frankly a lot easier than cars having to make a plethora of 
> decisions involving the unexpected on the nation's highways and 
> byways. I don't think we'll come anywhere near the 2015 target.
>
> And yes, I've read "Wired for War". While much progress on automated 
> weapons systems and vehicles has been made, we're a long way from 
> fool-proof systems. I remember one person quoted in the book saying 
> something to the effect that with current software practices and 
> knowledge, the first thing a military robot will do is go insane when 
> it's fired up! We haven't mastered the complexities of robot 
> interaction yet, especially involving the unexpected.
>
> That said, I acknowledge that if one thinks *too* far ahead and sets 
> the thought in stone, one is liable to make serious errors, if for no 
> other reason than that the situation changes. Nevertheless, I still 
> firmly believe that we have to start thinking about the other problems 
> lest we end up in a situation wherein the technology comeds upon us 
> and we haven't even begun to plan for its implementation.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On Behalf Of David Evans
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:19 AM
> To: gwunder at earthlink.net; Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe 
> blind?
>
> Dear Gary,
>
> When I was in training for the Olympics, back in 1967-8, my coach 
> reminded me that you take it one hurdle at a time and don't get ahead of
yourself.
> If you are thinking about the 10 TH. hurdle and not the one in front 
> of you,
>
> you may wind up knocking hurdles down, but losing speed and time in the
> process.   Within a hurdle race, where there are say 10 hurdles to get 
> past,
>
> there are really 10 smaller, separate races that you must run and it 
> is this
>
> combination of small short races that leads to victory at the finish line.
> If you crash into the hurdles, instead of getting over them cleanly 
> and neatly, the race is going to either be lost or take more time than 
> you want it too.
>
> I am an engineer also and have contributed concept papers to both NASA 
> and DARPA in the past.
> I have written about automated cars and what we can expect to see in 
> the future.
> Cars that can drive themselves are already here and it is the Military 
> that is pushing the hardest for them.
> They are pushing to have autonomist vehicles in military service by 
> the year
>
> 2015.
> Vehicles in the future will communicate with each other wirelessly and 
> will know just where each of the other vehicles around them is 
> planning to go and
>
> will be able to coordinate their movements to avoid hitting each other.
> Chevy has already built and demonstrated one of these cars 2 years ago 
> at the Detroit Auto show and Al Roper, of the "Today show"  took it 
> for a drive
>
> around the parking lot with no one at the wheel.
> Cars will be able to drive themselves and likely have the option to 
> let a human driver drive them, if they want to, and that could and 
> likely would include a Blind driver with special sensor packages in place.
> The question is why would you drive the car yourself if the car can do 
> it for you?  For your own enjoyment?  For your own ego?  Just because 
> you can?
> The grand hope is that the automated cars will be safer and less prone 
> to accidents and safe human lives.
> A military commander will be able to order a soldier to take or 
> program a number of vehicles for a mission and then either ride along 
> or monitor from a distance the formation as it goes about is work.  If 
> a attack takes place the formation can defend itself, or run away and 
> meet later at a set point that is safe.  No humans are in danger lost 
> or captured.
>
> As with most things dealing with the future, what we envision and what 
> we get are sometimes two different things.  Sometimes they are better 
> than we thought and sometimes they will leave something to be desired, 
> we shall have
>
> to wait and see.
>
> David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
>
> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important tojoinanorganization ofthe 
> blind?
>
>
>> One other unanswerable question at this point: If being able to drive 
>> opens new employment possibilities, will rehab funds be used to 
>> subsidize the purchase and production of cars the blind can drive? 
>> How many of us expressed doubt about whether the first Braille 
>> notetakers would be funded given their voice competitors cost $900 
>> and they cost $4,000. Braille, however, provided sufficient benefits 
>> to justify the extra cost. Again, we just don't know.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:57 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to joinanorganization 
>> ofthe blind?
>>
>> Unanswerable question as we are not clairvoyant.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:04, "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> if it is ever actually mass produced, will you or the average blind 
>>> person
>> be able to add  the equivalent of a house payment on top of your 
>> current situation if it is even legally possible to drive?
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Marion Gwizdala
>>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:46 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join anorganization 
>>> ofthe
>> blind?
>>>
>>>
>>>  Bryan,
>>>      Well, can you please tell us what that difference would be?
>> Furthermore,
>>>  the comment you make asserts we are "waiting" for this technology. 
>>> The
>> fact
>>>  of the matter is that we are not waiting for it, we are creating 
>>> it. In  spite of the fact that a blind person has already 
>>> demonstrated that
>> driving
>>>  a vehicle independently is not only a dream but a reality, it seems 
>>> as if
>>
>>>  you don't believe the objective evidence. By the way, the footage 
>>> of a
>> man
>>>  walking on the moon was filmed in the desert in Arizona.
>>>
>>>  Fraternally yours,
>>>  Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>>  To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:06 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization 
>>> ofthe
>>
>>>  blind?
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> there's a difference in shooting for goals and waiting for pie in 
>>>> the sky
>>
>>>> technology.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Sheila Leigland
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization 
>>>> ofthe
>>
>>>> blind?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all, I've heard about doses of reality. If I and my husband 
>>>> had bought in to this kind of logic, we never would have gone to 
>>>> college, gotten married, raised our son, and worked. If I had 
>>>> listened to the advice of everyone we wouldn't have taken ourselves 
>>>> and our son to the
>> nfb
>>>> convention in 1996 from Montana by train and went to disneyland 
>>>> without sighted assistance our son was eight at the time so 
>>>> although he could see
>>
>>>> we were very much in control of the situation. Dreams and goals can 
>>>> be crushed by to much so called reality. It doesn't mean that we 
>>>> don't try
>> to
>>>> plan out things but we aren't afraid to try.
>>>>
>>>> sheila leigland
>>>>
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>> et
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>>>
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