[Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
Judy Jones
jtj1 at cableone.net
Wed Sep 12 04:38:53 UTC 2012
You got that right. And I hated the fonts with the thick-thin lines.
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>I hated italics more than bold-face!
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Hyde, David W. (ESC)
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:28 AM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
> One of the more interesting discoveries I made with an Optacon was that
> print wasn't always the same. When you used a typewriter, you had really
> only two choices of print, capitalized and uncapitalized. I learned about
> serif and sans-serif type. Bold was harder to read, because you had to
> trace
> the letters. You could enlarge the tactile image with a little slider on
> the
> camera. It gave a great representation of where things were on a page.
> Pictures were a fuzzy blur, handwriting was a squiggle, and it did have
> some
> limitations. All in all, it was the first reading device that most of us
> ever used.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 6:25 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
> Hello, everyone.
>
> Although several people have explained how the Optacon worked/works,
> perhaps
> a bit more explanation is in order.
>
> The Optacon did not have -- and was not meant to have -- the smarts to
> perform optical character recognition on what was under its camera. The
> whole point was to translate what the camera saw into a tactile image. So,
> for example, if one were reading and moved over a print letter I, one
> would
> discern a vertical vibrating line going from right to left across one's
> index finger (assuming one were reading in the normal direction).
> Moreover,
> since the camera was not a full-page device, it would have been
> singularlydifficult for the machine to really do good OCR on the text.
> TeleSensory Systems (the maker of the Optacon) tried to produce a device
> that would plug into the Optacon toreadaloud what was going under the
> camera
> but was unsuccessful in part because the camera did not have (and was not
> meant to have) sufficient resolution to perform character recognition with
> any semblance of accuracy. Remember, the Optacon was developed several
> years
> before the first Kurzweil Reading Machine which was the size of awashing
> machine.
>
> One depended upon one's brain tointerpret what oneobserved under one's
> finger. Many (including, presumably, jasmine and Chris) would consider
> this
> a severe drawback in that one would have to learn several styles of print
> as
> well as common page layouts.
>
> But this was also the device's greatest strength in that the human brain
> is
> far better at interpretation thancomputers are even now. And one could
> peruse printed music, line drawings, block diagrams,flow charts -- you
> name
> it. Most people didn't do well with handwriting but then OCR technology
> doesn't, either.
>
> Some blind folks found it impossible to learn to usethe Optacon but for
> those of us who did, it performed functions no other device could. I still
> have one ai bought refurbished for $300! You better believe I snapped it
> up!
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 10:19 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
> Heck yeah! That would be AWESOME!! Lol!
>
> Sent from my iPod Touch
>
> On Sep 8, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike and everyone,
>>
>> Now, wouldn't it be great if the Optacon was remade with a Braille
>> display so you could read what the Optacon was scanning in Braille?
>> This is purely hypothetical; I don't even know if it would be possible
>> to do this. But it would be very cool if it is possible!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:20 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>>
>> Jasmine:
>>
>> The Optacon doesn't actually read anything: you use the Optacon to
>> read stuff using your own brain and fingers. Some people can read
>> handwriting; others cannot. I never mastered that skill. However, I
>> could read line drawings and some maps. Judy Jones has given you a
>> decent description of
> the
>> Optacon.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:23 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi,
>> Until now, I've never heard ofan
>> Opticon. It actually reads handwriting? What actually is an Opticon?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk Mailing
>> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi, Chris,
>>
>> I am 28 but have many a blind friend who love their opticons,
>> for
>> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and other
>> things that OCR, frankly pukes on.
>>
>> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting. so No, the opticon
>> is
> not
>> obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never will be despite
>> Telesensory's haveing gone under. At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike Freeman
> wrote:
>> Hi, chris.
>>
>> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype. In fact, the fastest
> Optacon
>> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.
>> However, the only
>> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of the
> human
>> brain. So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the
>> accessibility concerns we do today because if the Optacon could
>> display it and "it" -- whatever it was -- was relatively uniform
>> (handwriting is not), one could read it. So I disagree that the Optacon
> is obsolete.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I agree with you about the Stream. As far as Humanware's tech
>> support,
> ugh;
>> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor in
>> my
> area
>> that actually provides good tech support. Once I found out that I'm
>> their customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed
>> to
> provide
>> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware when
>> I
> have
>> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>>
>> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm a
>> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the
>> Optacon
> is
>> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me of
>> an older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
>> different way. I personally found it very difficult and tedious to
>> read with, probably because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.
>> However, I'm
> sure
>> that with time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with
>> the Optacon. I can definitely see where it was a great piece of
>> technology in the time when it was new, but I think newer and better
>> technology such as Braille displays, scan-and-read software and screen
>> readers has made the Optacon obsolete.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Jasmine:
>>
>> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
>> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
>> Premium.
>> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA. I use a BraillesensePLUS
>> B32 note-taker
>> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS. I use a Victor Reader
>> Stream which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on
>> the market
> even
>> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
>> Stream at the moment. I use an iPhone 4. I also still have a working
>> Optacon. I suppose that about does it.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Jasmine,
>>
>> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS
>> 12, a Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Hi,
>> No, I didn't expect it, but I'm glad that this is a place both
>> to talk seriously and have fun.
>> :)
>> I was wondering what types of
>> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or
>> any others. I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I
>> know some are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
>> 2 Sep 2012
>> 19:18:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Wow. I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>>
>> Again, welcome.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything. Haha. I'll even walk
>> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to. My dad is the same way.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!! Do you go barefooted outside still?
>>
>> Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
>> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never
>> ever
> ever
>> blindness.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now
>> I'm in my 30's loving it. LOL!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Hey, another one.
>>
>> Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations
> that
>> go on.
>> As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
>> barefooted in the house. Outside, though... Not so much.
>> LOL!!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent:
>> Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Oh, let's see.
>>
>> One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person
>> should go barefooted or not. Guess by my signature what I said.
>>
>> Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may
>> well depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>>
>> Well, that's the lighter side. We do, however and very very often,
>> discuss some very serious matters here. Somebody wants help with
> something,
>> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
>> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.
>> IF
> our
>> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such
>> requests can be found here.
>> HTH.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>> That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had
>> some examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things
>> are
> talked
>> about. :)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent:
>> Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list. My name is Raymond; but, please
>> call me Ray. I insist.
>>
>> Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which
>> I mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the
>> like of which you will find quite stimulating.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I wanted to introduce myself to this list. My name is Jasmine.
>> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
> immediately
>> interested. I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new
> things
>> about blind people.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
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