[Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction

Wed Sep 12 08:50:11 UTC 2012

That is awesome!

Sent from my iPod Touch

On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:28 AM, "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us> wrote:

> One of the more interesting discoveries I made with an Optacon was that print wasn't always the same. When you used a typewriter, you had really only two choices of print, capitalized and uncapitalized. I learned about serif and sans-serif type. Bold was harder to read, because you had to trace the letters. You could enlarge the tactile image with a little slider on the camera. It gave a great representation of where things were on a page. Pictures were a fuzzy blur, handwriting was a squiggle, and it did have some limitations. All in all, it was the first reading device that most of us ever used.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 6:25 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> 
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> Although several people have explained how the Optacon worked/works, perhaps a bit more explanation is in order.
> 
> The Optacon did not have -- and was not meant to have -- the smarts to perform optical character recognition on what was under its camera. The whole point was to translate what the camera saw into a tactile image. So, for example, if one were reading and moved over a print letter I, one would discern a vertical vibrating line going from right to left across one's index finger (assuming one were reading in the normal direction). Moreover, since the camera was not a full-page device, it would have been singularlydifficult for the machine to really do good OCR on the text.
> TeleSensory Systems (the maker of the Optacon) tried to produce a device that would plug into the Optacon toreadaloud what was going under the camera but was unsuccessful in part because the camera did not have (and was not meant to have) sufficient resolution to perform character recognition with any semblance of accuracy. Remember, the Optacon was developed several years before the first Kurzweil Reading Machine which was the size of awashing machine.
> 
> One depended upon one's brain tointerpret what oneobserved under one's finger. Many (including, presumably, jasmine and Chris) would consider this a severe drawback in that one would have to learn several styles of print as well as common page layouts.
> 
> But this was also the device's greatest strength in that the human brain is far better at interpretation thancomputers are even now. And one could peruse printed music, line drawings, block diagrams,flow charts -- you name it. Most people didn't do well with handwriting but then OCR technology doesn't, either.
> 
> Some blind folks found it impossible to learn to usethe Optacon but for those of us who did, it performed functions no other device could. I still have one ai bought refurbished for $300! You better believe I snapped it up!
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 10:19 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> 
> Heck yeah! That would be AWESOME!! Lol!
> 
> Sent from my iPod Touch
> 
> On Sep 8, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mike and everyone,
>> 
>> Now, wouldn't it be great if the Optacon was remade with a Braille
>> display so you could read what the Optacon was scanning in Braille?
>> This is purely hypothetical; I don't even know if it would be possible
>> to do this. But it would be very cool if it is possible!
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:20 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>> 
>> Jasmine:
>> 
>> The Optacon doesn't actually read anything: you use the Optacon to
>> read stuff using your own brain and fingers. Some people can read
>> handwriting; others cannot. I never mastered that skill. However, I
>> could read line drawings and some maps. Judy Jones has given you a
>> decent description of
> the
>> Optacon.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:23 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>> 
>> Hi,
>>   Until now, I've never heard ofan
>> Opticon.  It actually reads handwriting? What actually is an Opticon?
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk Mailing
>> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>> 
>> Hi, Chris,
>> 
>> I am 28 but  have many   a blind friend who love their opticons,
>> for
>> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and other
>> things that OCR, frankly  pukes on.
>> 
>> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting.  so No, the opticon
>> is
> not
>> obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never  will be despite
>> Telesensory's haveing gone under.  At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike Freeman wrote:
>> Hi, chris.
>> 
>> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype.  In fact, the fastest
> Optacon
>> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.
>> However, the only
>> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of the
> human
>> brain.  So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the
>> accessibility concerns we do today because if the Optacon could
>> display it and "it" -- whatever it was -- was relatively uniform
>> (handwriting is not), one could read it.  So I disagree that the Optacon is obsolete.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>> 
>> Hi Mike,
>> 
>> I agree with you about the Stream.  As far as Humanware's tech
>> support,
> ugh;
>> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor in
>> my
> area
>> that actually provides good tech support.  Once I found out that I'm
>> their customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed
>> to
> provide
>> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware when
>> I
> have
>> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>> 
>> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm a
>> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the
>> Optacon
> is
>> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me of
>> an older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
>> different way.  I personally found it very difficult and tedious to
>> read with, probably because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.
>> However, I'm
> sure
>> that with time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with
>> the Optacon.  I can definitely see where it was a great piece of
>> technology in the time when it was new, but I think newer and better
>> technology such as Braille displays, scan-and-read software and screen
>> readers has made the Optacon obsolete.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>> 
>> Jasmine:
>> 
>> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
>> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home Premium.
>> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS
>> B32 note-taker
>> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor Reader
>> Stream which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on
>> the market
> even
>> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
>> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a working
>> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>> 
>> Mike Freeman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>> 
>> Hi Jasmine,
>> 
>> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS
>> 12, a Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>> 
>> Hi,
>>        No, I didn't expect it, but I'm glad that this is a place both
>> to talk seriously and have fun.
>> :)
>>        I was wondering what types of
>> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or
>> any others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I
>> know some are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
>> 2 Sep 2012
>> 19:18:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>> 
>> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>> 
>> Again, welcome.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>   Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even walk
>> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same way.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>> 
>> wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside still?
>> 
>> Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
>> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never
>> ever
> ever
>> blindness.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now
>> I'm in my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>> 
>> Hey, another one.
>> 
>> Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations
> that
>> go on.
>> As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
>> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
>> LOL!!
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
>> Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>> 
>> Oh, let's see.
>> 
>> One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person
>> should go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>> 
>> Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may
>> well depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>> 
>> Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very often,
>> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
> something,
>> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
>> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.
>> IF
> our
>> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such
>> requests can be found here.
>> HTH.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had
>> some examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things
>> are
> talked
>> about.  :)
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
>> Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>> 
>> Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but, please
>> call me Ray.  I insist.
>> 
>> Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which
>> I mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the
>> like of which you will find quite stimulating.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
>> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
> immediately
>> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new
> things
>> about blind people.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>> 
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