[Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access For The Blind?

Thu Jan 3 19:58:54 UTC 2013

Good morning, Diane,

I am in full agreement, understanding that our blunders are somehow 
always attributed to being blind. You're right, all people screw up, 
and in our case it is no doubt, BECAUSE we're have a misfortune of 
being, o'magod, blind! At 04:57 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote:
>Car,
>
>I would agree with this to a degree. But the flip side of that coin is that
>the sighted tend to attribute every mistake, every blunder you might make to
>the fact that you are blind. Of course we all make mistakes, whether we are
>sighted or blind.
>
>For instance, suppose you are walking along, engaged in conversation or
>thought, not paying attention and trip over your own feet. Or suppose you
>are pouring a glass of water and accidentally pour too much, or a few drops
>don't make it into the glass. We all do these things from time to time. None
>of us are perfect or immune. But to most of the sighted people that I know
>ours are "understandable" because we are blind.
>
>If you are someone who isn't comfortable with the scrutiny, the nervousness
>will have the potential to increase these blunders.
>
>Diane Graves
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
>Mihalakis
>Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:09 AM
>To: blinddog3 at charter.net; Blind Talk Mailing List; 'Blind Talk Mailing
>List'
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access For
>The Blind?
>
>Hi, Steve,
>
>My partner Robin and I think of ol' Sighty's staring as like, a lab rat
>effect. And actually, I welcome it. I believe people create these arbitrary
>and often exclusionary, barriers out of ignorance, the unknown, or the
>slightly less than obvious, not to mention  outright fear, so if you are an
>open book with your actions, ol' Sighty will hopefully feel inclined to
>understand a state of blindness for what it is.
>Car   06:28 PM 1/1/2013, Steven Johnson wrote:
> >It could also be a subconscious thing of being aware of our own
> >blindness and some of the things that we do as blind persons that may
> >draw attention to others.  Take for instance, eating, using a Braille
> >device, using a guide, using a white cane...people see these things as
> >being *unique* and will stop to look, and if we are subconsciously
> >aware of this, we may indeed feel like someone is watching...and they
> >probably are.  The other thing that it could be is just good old paranoia!
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Diane
> >Graves
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 8:09 PM
> >To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access
> >For The Blind?
> >
> >I would say that a feeling that someone is looking at you is more of an
> >intuitive thing as well. I'm not sure that there is anything scientific
> >to it. It is just like anything else that everyone, both blind and
> >sighted, sometimes has a sixth sense or a feeling about. I do,
> >sometimes get these feelings, but again, don't think there is anything
> >scientific about it, and I have to be in close proximity to the person.
> >
> >Of course, I never really developed a dependence or reliance on
> >echolocation either. This may, at least in part, be due to my hearing
>deficit.
> >
> >Diane Graves
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kelby
> >Carlson
> >Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:14 PM
> >To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access
> >For The Blind?
> >
> >I've got to voice a little skepticism here also.  I can certainly tell
> >if someone's looking at me if we're in close proximity and having a
> >conversation; and occasionally I'll be able to hear someone's body
> >between me and another object (a feature of
> >echolocation.) But without other clues, I don't think I (or most blind
> >people I know) can purely tell if someone is looking at us.
> >
> >Kelby
> >
> >
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
> >To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 31
> >Dec
> >2012 14:04:54 -0800
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid,World Access
> >For The Blind?
> >
> >Ray:
> >
> >I'd say, with all due respect, that your explanation below is an
> >explanation looking for a phenomenon.  Do we *really* know that we can
> >tell when someone's looking at us? Has there been a double-blind study
> >(in the medicinal trial sense) wherein participants also were
> >blind-folded with at least ten thousand participants so that the
> >statistical observations have at least a small chance of being valid? I
> >doubt it.  And can blind persons
> >*really* tell when someone's looking at them from across a room with
> >lots of intervening sound and people? I rather doubt it.  I think what
> >we
> >*think* is
> >being able to tell is merely observing the body and other reactions of
> >those whom we perceive to be looking at us.
> >
> >This is your terminal skeptic speaking here.! (grin)
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray
> >Foret Jr
> >Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:51 AM
> >To: gwunder at earthlink.net; Blind Talk Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access
> >For The Blind?
> >
> >Here's another thought.  I wish someone would come up with a good
> >explanation for this.  We all know it's true.  You know how you can
> >feel someone's eyes on you-and therefore-you know they're watching you
> >and when they're not?  It's something we all know is a fact:  and yet,
> >nobody seems to have bothered to try to work out just exactly what is
>actually going on.
> >Is it the eyes of the watcher that  cause this?  Could it possibly be
> >the way in which a person's seeing eyes reflect off what they're f:
> >sort of
> >like radar so that what we feel is actually the way light bends or
> >bounces back off us?  I sort of have a notion that's what's going on.
> >When a
> >sighted person looks at you, their eyes put out a kind of what you
> >might call light detection thingy:  maybe the retina and the way it
> >causes focus has something to do with this:  And, this causes the light
> >around the person being looked at to bend in to the shape of that
> >person, I guess maybe that's what makes the shadow.  Anyhow  , the now
> >bent light bounces back to the seer's eyes and that is how they can see
> >us.  The byproduct of that focused light reflection is felt by us in
> >the way that the light refraction around us changes.  Well, anyhow,
> >that's my notion:  And, it seems to me that if somebody really worked out
>how this
> >actually happens, might we not   develop ways in which this
> >finaminan could
> >be useful?  and, after all, who better to learn how to take advantage
> >of and learn to use it them the blind ourselves.
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> >Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
> >
> >On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "Gary Wunder"
> ><gwunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >  I know nothing about this organization, but I credit most of my
> >ability to get around to using echolocation and a cane.  It is a
> >tremendous asset to have.  There is an interesting book you might want
> >to read called see what I'm saying and it is available through the national
>library service.
> >
> >  Gary
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >  From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of wogg
> >le4
> >  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 9:43 AM
> >  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >  Cc: blind-international-students-request at nfbnet.org
> >  Subject: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access For
> >The Blind?
> >
> >  Hi all
> >
> >  I have read some material on this online and wondered if people could
> > give
> >  me:
> >
> >  1.  Information on this organization?
> >  2.  Have you done this training? Was it effective? If so, how?
> >  Especially interested in the views of adults.
> >  3.  Practicalities, costs etc.
> >
> >  I really would appreciate your views or if you yourself don't know
> >suggestions what other lists I could ask this on.
> >  Thanks
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
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> >  t
> >
> >
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