[Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access For The Blind?

Thu Jan 3 00:57:41 UTC 2013

Car,

I would agree with this to a degree. But the flip side of that coin is that
the sighted tend to attribute every mistake, every blunder you might make to
the fact that you are blind. Of course we all make mistakes, whether we are
sighted or blind.

For instance, suppose you are walking along, engaged in conversation or
thought, not paying attention and trip over your own feet. Or suppose you
are pouring a glass of water and accidentally pour too much, or a few drops
don't make it into the glass. We all do these things from time to time. None
of us are perfect or immune. But to most of the sighted people that I know
ours are "understandable" because we are blind. 

If you are someone who isn't comfortable with the scrutiny, the nervousness
will have the potential to increase these blunders.

Diane Graves

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
Mihalakis
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:09 AM
To: blinddog3 at charter.net; Blind Talk Mailing List; 'Blind Talk Mailing
List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access For
The Blind?

Hi, Steve,

My partner Robin and I think of ol' Sighty's staring as like, a lab rat
effect. And actually, I welcome it. I believe people create these arbitrary
and often exclusionary, barriers out of ignorance, the unknown, or the
slightly less than obvious, not to mention  outright fear, so if you are an
open book with your actions, ol' Sighty will hopefully feel inclined to
understand a state of blindness for what it is.
Car   06:28 PM 1/1/2013, Steven Johnson wrote:
>It could also be a subconscious thing of being aware of our own 
>blindness and some of the things that we do as blind persons that may 
>draw attention to others.  Take for instance, eating, using a Braille 
>device, using a guide, using a white cane...people see these things as 
>being *unique* and will stop to look, and if we are subconsciously 
>aware of this, we may indeed feel like someone is watching...and they 
>probably are.  The other thing that it could be is just good old paranoia!
>
>Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Diane 
>Graves
>Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 8:09 PM
>To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access 
>For The Blind?
>
>I would say that a feeling that someone is looking at you is more of an 
>intuitive thing as well. I'm not sure that there is anything scientific 
>to it. It is just like anything else that everyone, both blind and 
>sighted, sometimes has a sixth sense or a feeling about. I do, 
>sometimes get these feelings, but again, don't think there is anything 
>scientific about it, and I have to be in close proximity to the person.
>
>Of course, I never really developed a dependence or reliance on 
>echolocation either. This may, at least in part, be due to my hearing
deficit.
>
>Diane Graves
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kelby 
>Carlson
>Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:14 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access 
>For The Blind?
>
>I've got to voice a little skepticism here also.  I can certainly tell 
>if someone's looking at me if we're in close proximity and having a 
>conversation; and occasionally I'll be able to hear someone's body 
>between me and another object (a feature of
>echolocation.) But without other clues, I don't think I (or most blind 
>people I know) can purely tell if someone is looking at us.
>
>Kelby
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 31 
>Dec
>2012 14:04:54 -0800
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid,World Access 
>For The Blind?
>
>Ray:
>
>I'd say, with all due respect, that your explanation below is an 
>explanation looking for a phenomenon.  Do we *really* know that we can 
>tell when someone's looking at us? Has there been a double-blind study 
>(in the medicinal trial sense) wherein participants also were 
>blind-folded with at least ten thousand participants so that the 
>statistical observations have at least a small chance of being valid? I 
>doubt it.  And can blind persons
>*really* tell when someone's looking at them from across a room with 
>lots of intervening sound and people? I rather doubt it.  I think what 
>we
>*think* is
>being able to tell is merely observing the body and other reactions of 
>those whom we perceive to be looking at us.
>
>This is your terminal skeptic speaking here.! (grin)
>
>Mike
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray 
>Foret Jr
>Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:51 AM
>To: gwunder at earthlink.net; Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access 
>For The Blind?
>
>Here's another thought.  I wish someone would come up with a good 
>explanation for this.  We all know it's true.  You know how you can 
>feel someone's eyes on you-and therefore-you know they're watching you 
>and when they're not?  It's something we all know is a fact:  and yet, 
>nobody seems to have bothered to try to work out just exactly what is
actually going on.
>Is it the eyes of the watcher that  cause this?  Could it possibly be 
>the way in which a person's seeing eyes reflect off what they're f:
>sort of
>like radar so that what we feel is actually the way light bends or 
>bounces back off us?  I sort of have a notion that's what's going on.
>When a
>sighted person looks at you, their eyes put out a kind of what you 
>might call light detection thingy:  maybe the retina and the way it 
>causes focus has something to do with this:  And, this causes the light 
>around the person being looked at to bend in to the shape of that 
>person, I guess maybe that's what makes the shadow.  Anyhow  , the now 
>bent light bounces back to the seer's eyes and that is how they can see 
>us.  The byproduct of that focused light reflection is felt by us in 
>the way that the light refraction around us changes.  Well, anyhow, 
>that's my notion:  And, it seems to me that if somebody really worked out
how this
>actually happens, might we not   develop ways in which this
>finaminan could
>be useful?  and, after all, who better to learn how to take advantage 
>of and learn to use it them the blind ourselves.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>
>On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "Gary Wunder"
><gwunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>  I know nothing about this organization, but I credit most of my 
>ability to get around to using echolocation and a cane.  It is a 
>tremendous asset to have.  There is an interesting book you might want 
>to read called see what I'm saying and it is available through the national
library service.
>
>  Gary
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of wogg 
>le4
>  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 9:43 AM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  Cc: blind-international-students-request at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [Blindtlk] Echo Location as a Mobility Aid, World Access For 
>The Blind?
>
>  Hi all
>
>  I have read some material on this online and wondered if people could 
> give
>  me:
>
>  1.  Information on this organization?
>  2.  Have you done this training? Was it effective? If so, how?
>  Especially interested in the views of adults.
>  3.  Practicalities, costs etc.
>
>  I really would appreciate your views or if you yourself don't know 
>suggestions what other lists I could ask this on.
>  Thanks
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  blindtlk:
>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40e
>arthlink.ne
>  t
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>att.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>ix.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlso
>n%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%4
>0gmai
>l.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40chart
>er.ne
>t
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas
>t.net

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
l.com