[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Fri Mar 22 01:56:05 UTC 2013

Good evening Justin and everyone,

    Go where you wouldn't be required to take it. That statement comes from 
our center directors not me. I've heard them say it on numerous occasions 
that our center programs have a set curriculum all students must take to 
complete bootcamp and as prerequisites for enrollment in advanced training. 
Students wishing to become O&M instructors through Louisiana Tech and to be 
certified as NOMC Certificants are required to undergo a period of immersion 
training to receive NBPCB Certification. Learn more at: http://www.nbpcb.org

    Those wishing to obtain a dog through an NFB operated guide dog program 
must be expected to do the same. This approach addresses many of the issues 
folks raised concerning placement of a guide dog in previous posts something 
that doesn't happen at traditional guide dog schools. It's one thing to 
judge one's suitability for a dog based solly on character references, 
medical reports, O&M reports, video footage, etc but quite another to have 
the opportunity to be able to work directly with the individual to insure 
that their blindness skills are up-to-snuff, get to know them on a personal 
level, and observe how they interact with people, animals, and in various 
life situations. An immersion training requirement for new guide dog 
candidates would do that and a whole lot more.

    It may be that at the end of the immersion period the applicant may 
decide that a cane is a better match and decide that a dog is too much 
responsibility. At the end of the day the applicant gets some 
structured-discovery blindness training and a dog does not end up in an 
environment where it is not wanted and has been protected from possible 
mistreatment by its owner or others. If this became a reality guide dog 
training and placement could be brought to a whole new level.

Peter Donahue

sage ----- 
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

What if you do not need the mobility training?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Donahue
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
    Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the past so she
knows where I'm coming from. In line with her comments below I'd like to
suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:

        Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment centers for
blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for housing
students in training to be constructed. Hold on folks. Students wishing to
obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to complete the
6-9 month program at one of the centers. During the student's "Bootcamp
training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the student
inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background information on the
applicant to the guide dog unit. Unlike current guide dog programs that must
rely on references and other information that may be true or false the NFB
guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information gathered for
them by the training center and can be assured that the applicant is a
suitable candidate for a dog.

    This approach will also assure the guide dog program that the student is
up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring them to the
use of a dog. Students that successfully complete the cane travel component
of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog. This
approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete other
aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time students
often experience when at guide dog training facilities.

    Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required to wear
sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and participating
in designated center activities. Like students who undergo cane travel
instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be encouraged to
travel on their own prior to completion of the training. In the beginning
they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog user/trainer but would
be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on their own
using their dogs.

    As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would operate
similar to those of current guide dog programs. The program would operate
its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from donations. The usual
period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much different
than is done by current guide dog programs. The dogs would return for a
period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind person. Once the
dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they along with an
instructor would be sent to the center where the student receiving the dog
will be trained. Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could operate from
one of our centers. Those wishing to obtain dogs once their "Bootcamp"
training is complete would transfer to that center for training with the
dog. Using all ready existing facilities to house students in training is
one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.

    The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run guide dog
program could work but I'm sure others would have additional ideas. If it's
to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
participants. All the best.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup

I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I would
like to see a more in depth background investigation of the blind
applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more references, ask
the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place children
into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately know what
sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I think there
are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the police
and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies can't be
used in cases of neglect or abuse.

In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of the dog
in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.  We have
to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing Eye's
concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had increased
over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since the
beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.  $150
was a very different sum of money then and now.

I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for substantially
lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various guide dog
programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the numbers
vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive equipment and
other niceties cost money.

Julie

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