[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

[David Andrews]

Kelby:

The way our NFB Centers teach things isn't as black and white as I 
think you think it is.  You can't learn mobility their way by going 
to a class an hour or two a day for a few weeks.  The whole thing is 
really a package deal, and students support each other, instructors 
work with students, things you learn in one class are reenforced in 
other classes etc.  You are being taught how to be a blind guy and 
how to prosper in  a sighted world.  The specific skills training is 
a part of it, but there is also attitude training.  I think you are 
relatively young and you probably haven't been knocked about -- so to 
speak.  You probably will be, most of us are, and our centers teach 
us how to deal with the slings and arrows of the sighted public, and 
how to move on, and much more.

This isn't to say that this is the only way to do it -- but it works, 
and it is the way we do it.

People want the benefits, but don't want to pay the price in time and 
effort.  It doesn't work that way.  A good center challenges and 
pushes you.  If you are good in one skill you may get a little less 
of it, and./or you may be challenged by teaching others, or something 
else.  A good center personalizes your program so it works for you.

Dave

At 11:09 PM 3/21/2013, you wrote:
>I keep hearing this in NFB literature and from federationists-that 
>my local training simply must have been far, far inferior to 
>anything the NFB has.  I have as of yet seen no actual compelling 
>evidence for this claim, and no one I know well in the NFB has 
>offered me convincing reasons as to why the training I have is 
>bad.  (Those who don't know me can't offer any reasons, as they 
>don't know my context.) If NFB mobility is so wonderful, I wish they 
>would allow people interested to pay for a little instruction to get 
>a sense of their methodology in real space time rather than forcing 
>people to commit to six to nine months.
>
>Kelby
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:56:35 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
>Well we all need good mobility skills.  A dog is not a replacement 
>for mobility skills.  Whether you use a cane, sighted guide, or a guide dog.
>If you haven't been to an NFB School over the training you get 
>locally then you don't know what you are missing.
>Never going to them myself.  I have seen what someone with no 
>knowledge of any of the services or very little in there own areas, 
>and come back from our schools with the confidence and the mobility 
>and the other services that are given there.
>If NFB is interested in forming a guide dog school on the NFB's 
>philosophy then it comes with the first steps in mobility and then a 
>dog.  I have not been blind all my life.  I lost my vision as an 
>adult, and I learned the mobility and cane skills, my dog doesn't 
>know when to cross the street, I have to give him the direction to do so.
>Know if I am mistaken in what is being said, I am the first to 
>mention when I am wrong, but there will be a day that we will either 
>not want to take our dogs places, by our own choice, or in between a 
>dog, or whatever the issues are.  That I know the skills to get me 
>where I want to go whether it is with my Maxx or not.
>Have a great night all.
>Take care and god bless.
>Whatever decision is met and decided should be done with kindness to 
>one another; and with the philosophy of the great organization.
>Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel & Tourism
>
>Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible 
>Travel Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria, 
>Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
>varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012 
>Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST - 
>#1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National 
>Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for 
>the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other 
>resources.  Any vacation package booked between November 6 
>2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than 
>12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
>Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and 
>friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the 
>affiliate as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, 
>just book through us.
>
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:18:49 -0500
>From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
>To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
>I'll echo what Cindysaid.  There isno way I would give up that
>much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
>purpose of getting a dog.  ZPeter said, I would go somewhere else
>straightaway.
>
>Kelby
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
>When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
>real lack of
>quality training for blind people.  I don't really think that's
>the case
>with guide schools.  There are some schools which do things
>differently from
>others.  But, there are people who prefer one approach over
>another.  I
>don't really think that NFB needs to get involved with guide dog
>training.
>
>As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the nine
>month NFB
>center training, first, this will severely limit the number of
>people
>choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog school, should
>one be
>started.  I don't know to many people who can give up a year of
>their life
>to get a guide dog.
>
>Cindy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Donahue
>Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
>Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
>     Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
>past so she
>knows where I'm coming from.  In line with her comments below I'd
>like to
>suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:
>
>         Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
>centers for
>blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for
>housing
>students in training to be constructed.  Hold on folks.
>Students
>wishing to
>obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
>complete the
>6-9 month program at one of the centers.  During the student's
>"Bootcamp
>training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the
>student
>inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background
>information on the
>applicant to the guide dog unit.  Unlike current guide dog
>programs that must
>rely on references and other information that may be true or
>false the NFB
>guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information
>gathered for
>them by the training center and can be assured that the applicant
>is a
>suitable candidate for a dog.
>
>     This approach will also assure the guide dog program that the
>student is
>up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring
>them to the
>use of a dog.  Students that successfully complete the cane
>travel component
>of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
>This
>approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
>other
>aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time
>students
>often experience when at guide dog training facilities.
>
>     Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
>to wear
>sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and
>participating
>in designated center activities.  Like students who undergo cane
>travel
>instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be
>encouraged to
>travel on their own prior to completion of the training.  In the
>beginning
>they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog
>user/trainer but would
>be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on
>their own
>using their dogs.
>
>     As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
>operate
>similar to those of current guide dog programs.  The program
>would operate
>its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from
>donations.  The usual
>period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much
>different
>than is done by current guide dog programs.  The dogs would
>return for a
>period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind
>person.  Once the
>dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they
>along with an
>instructor would be sent to the center where the student
>receiving the dog
>will be trained.  Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could
>operate from
>one of our centers.  Those wishing to obtain dogs once their
>"Bootcamp"
>training is complete would transfer to that center for training
>with the
>dog.  Using all ready existing facilities to house students in
>training is
>one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.
>
>     The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
>guide dog
>program could work but I'm sure others would have additional
>ideas.  If it's
>to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
>participants.  All the best.
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
>
>I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I
>would
>like to see a more in depth background investigation of the blind
>applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more
>references, ask
>the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place
>children
>into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately know
>what
>sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I think
>there
>are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the
>police
>and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies
>can't be
>used in cases of neglect or abuse.
>
>In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
>the dog
>in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.
>We
>have
>to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing
>Eye's
>concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had
>increased
>over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since
>the
>beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.
>$150
>was a very different sum of money then and now.
>
>I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
>substantially
>lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various
>guide dog
>programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the
>numbers
>vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive
>equipment and
>other niceties cost money.
>
>Julie