[Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB Centers or Not?
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Sat Mar 23 22:17:26 UTC 2013
Peter:
I agree with you completely that Federationists can and should participate
in other groups within society. That's the ultimate goal of the NFB -- to be
allowed to participate in society as equals with the sighted.
But I do not see that we have an obligation to poll those who are not
members of our organization. Do Republicans poll Democrats, Roman Catholics
poll Unitarian-universalists, Tea-party activists poll Americans for
Democratic Action? I think not. In fact,were NFB to do this, it would be
disenfranchising its members since others would presumably have an influence
on our policies without paying dues or helping us in any way.
Moreover, we confine our collective action to blindness-related matters,
believing that our members can and should work toward other societal goals
in movements founded for promotion of those goals or as individuals. Thus,
we do not take positions as an organization on many of the hot-button issues
of the day, believing that it's better to collectively work on the thing we
have in common -- blindness -- than to splinter over other matters.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolfe
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 3:00 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: gwunder at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB Centers or
Not?
Kelby and others,
Just being devil's advocate but the proposition isn't muturally
exclusive of one another like being an NFB member doesn't exclude you
of other civil engagement projects or groups. I'd say that lots of NFB
or ACB members are church members of various religious or spiritual
beliefs, yet this doesn't preclude them of joining or participating
with their prefered clique. Individual and group advocacy is a good
thing just the problem in the group is that its not nearly open enough
by far that I'm disappointed in NFB to be honest. I'd like to think
more surveys, more petititions and ore action not only blindness
issues but on other minority issues wouold be helpful. Working
together on other ailments on education reform that affects earlier
education like the drop out rate at age sixteen in the states just a
small example could help. The problem is that you cannot isolate
blindness and say that blindness is the only issue cause that
dishonest and quite frankly offensive and a cough out to be lazy on
the organizations part.
Secondly, I as a former sighted person am disappointed in the
state of the affairs of being blind as a whole. I don't like the
unemployment level being 70% that is far too high for any group not
just the blind but any group. I do have an inferiority complex cause
I've seen what sighted people can do and blind people and fact is
sighted people can do tremendously more than blind people even the
most successful blind people. Sorry this is reality and I choose to
embrase reality not dream-like imagination even with our best
intentions that this is still the case. What I get mad about is when
sighted or nondisabled people throw away their numerous opportunities
on wasteful endeavors in general that annoys me. I'd say that some
blind people do this too not nearly as often nor is all blind people
can be blamed such as the state of rehabilitation, cuts to programs or
in general their other disabilities or upbringing. Combining all of
this that we have to look at everything comprehensively and work in
partnerships to alievate these other barriers.
Lastly, I don't think blind people have really the superiority
complex nor do most sighted people think that way at all. In fact, the
arrogance of thinking that you can do everything by yourself comes
across as childish and like a person throwing a temper tantrum. Sorry
but in my long years of living in fifty cities and in all parts of the
U.S excluding northwest and northeast states is that blind people
cannot do anything for themselves. Nott saying this is the case just
that we all have lots of work still to do in these areas of advocacy
and independent living and spreading this information to blind groups.
We need to spread literacy, advocacy, information and become better
fundraisers for needed equipment and training. Ideally having an free
tutoring program and comprehensive independent living site would be
helpful for different stages of blindness too! However, I see this low
cost solution that many in NFB will disagree with me on it.
sincerely,
Peter
On 3/23/13, Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I want to offer my mutual appreciation for this discussion. The
> list of things the NFB knows are things I also know, and believe
> in passionately. I am always encouraged by this, as I like
> finding common ground from which to discuss things. There is
> know thing that I think I would disagree with you on, but it
> actually has a lot less to do with blindness at all. In a
> previous message, you said that if someone is unwilling to join a
> group toward a specific cause, than they are morally obligated
> not to complain if said cause is not succeeding. I think I
> understand your point here-let me know if I have stated it
> inaccurately. However, let me offer you a counter-example. I
> follow religious news closely, so I know a fair amount about the
> abuse scandals in the Catholic church. I am not Catholic and
> don't have any plans to be. Nor, in the specific position I am
> in geographically, contextually and vocationally, am I likely to
> have some or any influence. But I'm not sure your conclusion is
> supported by your premise: that collective action is the best way
> to influence events. It definitely can be effective, but does
> that mean it is the only means of inflencing the world? Or even
> the primary means? Can I not influence political, ethical or
> religious attitudes locally, through discussion and example? Am I
> forbidden from expressing moral convictions simply because I am
> not actively working in a collective to support those
> convictions? I would need a more substantial argument to be
> convinced that's the case.
> Kelby
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:46:33 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB
> Centers or Not?
>
> Hello, Kelby. I appreciate your honesty and the fact that you
> are talking
> about feelings rather than making accusations.
>
> There are comments which are sometimes made in the NFB that make
> me
> uncomfortable. I do not think we know the truth about blindness.
> It is a
> nice statement, but it is too overarching for me to embrace. I
> think we
> know some truths about blindness that make sense. I think we
> know that good
> training can make a tremendous difference in how people function
> in the
> world. I think we know that it makes sense for society to
> support
> rehabilitation programs that lead to our education and
> employment. I think
> we know that it makes sense to carry a cane that is long enough
> to tell you
> there is a poll or a sign in your path before you actually come
> in contact
> with it. I think we know that being literate is helpful in the
> information
> society and that this issue must be addressed so that many blind
> people have
> opportunity. I think we know that an important element of
> changing attitudes
> about blindness comes from interacting with and collectively
> addressing the
> misconceptions that cause a social worker to say there is no way
> she can, in
> good conscience, place a frail little infant in the care of two
> blind people
> unless they can guarantee her they will have 24x7 sighted
> assistance.
>
> I can't think of one person who believes that they are superior
> by virtue of
> the fact that they are blind. I can, however, think of a number
> of people
> who believe they are inferior because they once had sight and no
> longer do.
> I do believe that there are times when people react so strongly
> to the
> notion that we are broken human beings that they make it sound as
> though we
> are somehow special or superior, but I think this has more to do
> with
> changing the underlying assumptions of our discussions than it
> does a true
> sense of superiority.
>
> I am glad you are part of this list, whether or not you decide to
> join the
> national Federation of the blind. I feel the same way about
> Desiree. I
> welcome the opportunity to exchange points of view, and I do not
> consider it
> a failure of communication if I failed to change your mind or you
> failed to
> change mine. As long as we can communicate civilly and actually
> try to
> understand what the other person is saying, I think this kind of
> conversation is very worthwhile.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> kelby
> carlson
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 5:51 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB
> Centers or
> Not?
>
> My reservations are primarily attached to what I see as a "my way
> or the
> highway" mentality. Despite protestations to the contrary, I get
> the
> distinct feeling the NFB really believes it has found *the way*
> of
> understanding and living with blindness. While the NFB's
> particular
> methodology may work for some people--and has a good deal to
> commend
> it--it's just not something I'm comfortable embracing. I also
> detect a kind
> of insularity--a constant "looking in" if you will--that is
> unhelpful. It's
> one thing to have a like-minded community, but I sometimes feel
> as if there
> is a kind of feeling of superiority over sighted people--or even
> non-Federationists! I have felt distinctly out of the loop and
> out of place
> at some NFB events because I wasn't "plugged in", didn't know the
> lingo, and
> didn't have the kind of personal history that most other
> federationists seem
> to have. I cannot use these experiences to discourage anyone
> from joining
> the NFB, nor do I wish to. As I said previously in this
> discussion, I am
> uncomfortable with arguments based on anecdotal experience.
> This, then, is
> not an argument for or against the NFB--it probably explains more
> about me
> than the Federation. I hope that helps clarify a little.
>
>
>
> On 3/22/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> A good soldier is not measured by how many bullets they fire,
> but by
> their dedication to the cause. And a warrior doesn't need to be
> on the
> battlefield to prove his worth to society.
>
> On 3/21/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Be a warrior. Be on the frong lines.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> kelby carlson
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 5:52 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB
> Centers
> or Not?
>
> My perspective is similar to Desiree's. I have every intention
> of
> getting more involved in blindness advocacy in some way.
> However, I
> have reservations about all of the organizations there are.
> (It's
> totally possible those reservations will go away some day.) For
> now,
> I want to figure out what's going to work best for me as a blind
> person and do what I can individually to help others as well.
> There
> is great value in collectivity--no mistake--I'm just at a place
> where
> that isn't how I believe i can best function. I do hope to
> attend the
> convention one of these years, though, and my mind could
> definitely
> change!
>
> I know I may come across sounding antagonistic toward the
> Federation
> at times. I need to work harder on moderating what I say and
> how I
> say it. But believe me when I say I see a ton of value in the
> Federation and a great deal that I like and agree with.
> Fundamentally, my philosophy is very similar (I think) to the
> NFB
> philosophy. How it is worked out practically is sometimes where
> the
> rubber meets the road.
>
>
>
> On 3/22/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> While I won't speak for Peter, I'll give my own perspective on
> why I
> choose not to join the NFB or ACB.
> It's not about having a superiority complex. I don't consider
> myself
> to be better than anyone who is part of an organization.
> however, I
> like to draw my own conclusions, keeping politics and hidden
> agendas
> at arm's length. That's why my involvement only extends as far
> as
> listservs will take it. I feel that reading messages written by
> individual members is a much more unbiased, not to mention
> realistic
> view, of how the members of each organization live, work and
> interact in day-to-day life. At a meeting or convention,
> there's the
> expectation that one must carry themselves a certain way, say
> the
> right things, be inspired by all the right catch phrases.
> That's not
> limited to organizations for or of the blind, either, that's a
> fact
> of human nature. When you draw a large number of like-minded
> individuals together, and get them all to focus on one specific
> problem, proposition, or what have you, the people will either
> put
> their best or worst foot forward collectively. There is little
> time
> for individual thought processes, emotions, or personalities to
> take
> root and stand above the rest.
> I am, by nature, very reserved, maybe I could even be classified
> as
> a loner in a lot of ways. As I said, I think and draw
> conclusions
> best when there are no distractions, no bells and whistles so to
> speak. I take what is important to me, what fits in with my
> values
> and beliefs, and apply it to how I live my life. I don't
> honestly
> feel that I need to belong to anything to find my purpose, nor
> should I be told that I have no purpose unless I'm at the
> forefront
> of every high and low point in the organization's history. I am
> content with this, and I feel that I have a right to speak out
> about
> it, since it's a viewpoint which most who hold it would probably
> not
> be comfortable expressing for fear of being blamed and shamed.
>
> On 3/22/13, Gary Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hello, Peter. I have not followed this thread, but I have
> looked
> at one or two of your posts. I think it is a shame that you
> will
> not join the American Council of the Blind or the National
> Federation of the Blind.
> I
> suppose you believe there is some kind of superiority in being
> what
> you might call an independent. Perhaps you are right, but my
> own
> life experience indicates that having influence means joining
> with
> others of like mind, exploring how you can understand them and
> get
> them to understand you, and then acting together in a concerted
> way
> to bring about the better world we all say we want. One popular
> buzzword you can't help but hear if you listen to five minutes
> of
> the news is the word infrastructure, but there is a lot to be
> said
> for having a way to effect the change we want. For me this is
> the
> National Federation of the Blind. For others it is the American
> Council of the Blind. Though the organizations may disagree
> from
> time to time, one thing most all of us share is that we have
> made a
> commitment to blind people that extends beyond words. We are
> willing to put our time, our energy, and our money into helping
> you, whether or not you appreciate that we do so or ever raise a
> finger to help us. Much distance remains for us to travel, and
> we
> certainly can use a willing hand at the oars. Thanks for
> reading.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Peter Wolfe
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:52 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB
> Centers or Not?
>
> In fact, the best method that anybody can teach you is
> improvization not technique persay. It doesn't matter where you
> get
> any information from on these things whether NFB, ACB, AFB,
> Lion's
> Club's or wherever as long as you get whatever information.
> Make-up
> yoru own techniques and sell a book for all I care as long as it
> works for you that is all that counts. I could careless as logn
> as
> you share the information with fellow blind individuals that is
> my
> thhing that it shouldn't matter what special interest group that
> your apart of cause we should all work together in dealing with
> a
> rotten situation to make it better. By the way, I'm never going
> to
> be part of NFB, ACB, AFB or any of them.
>
>
> sincerely,
> Peter
>
> On 3/22/13, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Kelby,
>
> Your question is a fair one and I don't have a definitive
> answer.
> I can only tell you that I received training before there were
> NFB
> centers and I have been a reasonably successful traveler and
> have
> generally managed my life successfully. However, in the work I
> have done with BLIND Incorporated, I see that there are things I
> missed when I was trained. I think I have picked up much of
> what
> I missed primarily because of my association with others in the
> Federation. It has more to do with being confident enough to
> try
> new situations and knowing that I'll figure them out even if I
> don't know exactly how at the start, and less to do with how
> many
> inches I swing my cane left and right. In my opinion, and you
> may
> see this as a cop-out, it has less to do with comparing the
> quality of one's travel skills and more to do with whether one
> actually gets out and travels. These are not easy things to
> measure.
>
> I know you some via e-mail and I think we may have met in the
> past, but I don't know how well you travel, for example. What I
> do know is that most of us are affected by the general attitudes
> that surround us in a way that is hard to measure. Even though
> we
> have some idea of what our capabilities are, unless we are
> exceptionally confident, we are going to tend to believe it if
> we
> are uncertain how we would accomplish a given thing and someone
> tells us we can't do it. I believe there was a time when there
> was a clear dividing line between NFB training centers and many
> other centers. We believed that we have to affect one's
> attitude
> toward blindness and oneself while most other centers believed
> that
> they need to concentrate on teaching techniques.
> The common belief among some other centers was that changing
> attitudes toward blindness was dictating a philosophy and was
> outside of their mandate.
>
> Frankly, I think this has changed some over the years and that
> there is a more general acceptance of the notion that one's
> belief
> in oneself is probably as important as the techniques used so
> some
> of the lines are not as clear as they once were. Still, I am
> skeptical of how well attitudes can be changed in a couple of
> months, but of course, it depends some upon the starting point
> of the
> individual.
>
> It was observed at one of our state conventions that we are not
> all good travelers. The person making the observation, who
> shall
> remain nameless, said that they felt a need to jump in and help
> but there were too many people to try to help all at once.
> However, they soon realized that good techniques or bad, people
> were getting where they needed to go without assistance, and
> that
> what appeared to be potentially frustrating to an observer was
> not
> the case for the traveler. This isn't meant to diminish the
> role
> of good travel techniques, only to make the point that there is
> more to travel than techniques. Having said all this, though, I
> also believe that what we have come to call structured discovery
> is a valid difference in how one learns to travel. In some
> ways,
> it takes longer to learn but provides a better base from which
> to
> work. Some of us who did not attend NFB training centers have
> adopted this approach on our own to some degree, but we would
> probably have adopted it more easily having had training in an
> NFB
> center.
>
> I have seen somewhat of a pattern in a number of your messages.
> Often, you start rejecting a position that some of us have
> taken.
> Then, when you hear the stories that some have told, you seem to
> be more open to the possibility that there are sometimes reasons
> for positions we might have taken. I won't bore you with the
> details of the time I almost missed a flight because I allowed
> myself to be talked into waiting for a cart, only to have one
> not
> be available for close to an hour, and how the airline employee
> refused to tell me which gate I needed to get to. Anyway, some
> of
> what you are hearing here would have been a part of your
> training
> at an NFB Center. You would likely have been given the chance
> to
> interact personally with people who had similar experiences so
> that you could ask them questions. You can get some of this
> information here, of course, but what about the many experiences
> that
> are not discussed?
>
> Still, I think it makes sense to be careful not to judge one
> another.
> My goal is not to convince you how bad your training was,
> because
> it might be all right. I feel pretty certain that there are
> things you didn't get that you would have gotten had you spent
> time in one of our centers as indicated above, but I don't
> really
> think that is the point. The point is how can we help you now
> and
> how can you help us and other blind people? Are there things
> you
> are not comfortable doing that perhaps someone else here is
> comfortable doing? We could even explore here some of the
> things
> that many of us have overcome as a result of the encouragement
> from
> others.
>
> Sure, I'd like to have the words to make you see things exactly
> as
> I see them, isn't that always true? In the end, though, I don't
> care that much whether you believe there is a difference in
> training centers or not. I care more that you have what you
> need
> to get a job when you get out of college and that you are able
> to
> live as full a life as you can live, and I believe there are
> ways
> we can help you do that.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:09:07 -0500, Kelby Carlson wrote:
>
> I keep hearing this in NFB literature and from
> federationists-that
> my local training simply must have been far, far inferior to
> anything the NFB has. I have as of yet seen no actual compelling
> evidence for this claim, and no one I know well in the NFB has
> offered me convincing reasons as to why the training I have is
> bad. (Those who don't know me can't offer any reasons, as they
> don't know my context.) If NFB mobility is so wonderful, I wish
> they would allow people interested to pay for a little
> instruction
> to get a sense of their methodology in real space time rather
> than
> forcing people to commit to six to nine months.
>
> Kelby
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu,
> 21 Mar 2013 23:56:35 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
> Well we all need good mobility skills. A dog is not a
> replacement
> for mobility skills. Whether you use a cane, sighted guide, or a
> guide dog.
> If you haven't been to an NFB School over the training you get
> locally then you don't know what you are missing.
> Never going to them myself. I have seen what someone with no
> knowledge of any of the services or very little in there own
> areas, and come back from our schools with the confidence and the
> mobility and the other services that are given there.
> If NFB is interested in forming a guide dog school on the NFB's
> philosophy then it comes with the first steps in mobility and
> then
> a dog. I have not been blind all my life. I lost my vision as
> an
> adult, and I learned the mobility and cane skills, my dog doesn't
> know when to cross the street, I have to give him the direction
> to do
> so.
> Know if I am mistaken in what is being said, I am the first to
> mention when I am wrong, but there will be a day that we will
> either not want to take our dogs places, by our own choice, or in
> between a dog, or whatever the issues are. That I know the
> skills
> to get me where I want to go whether it is with my Maxx or not.
> Have a great night all.
> Take care and god bless.
> Whatever decision is met and decided should be done with kindness
> to one another; and with the philosophy of the great
> organization.
> Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel & Tourism
>
> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the
> Way
> in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
> varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
> Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser
> for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other
> resources.
> Any vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6,
> 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than
> 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
> Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families
> and
> friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
> affiliate as well. You do not need to be a member of the
> NFB.org,
> just book through us.
>
>
> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:18:49 -0500
> From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible
> Scenario
>
> I'll echo what Cindysaid. There isno way I would give up that
> much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
> purpose of getting a dog. ZPeter said, I would go somewhere else
> straightaway.
>
> Kelby
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent:
> Thu,
> 21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible
> Scenario
>
> When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
> real lack of quality training for blind people. I don't really
> think that's the case with guide schools. There are some
> schools
> which do things differently from others. But, there are people
> who prefer one approach over another. I don't really think that
> NFB needs to get involved with guide dog training.
>
> As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the
> nine
> month NFB center training, first, this will severely limit the
> number of people choosing to have training from an NFB guide
> dog
> school, should one be started. I don't know to many people who
> can give up a year of their life to get a guide dog.
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donahue
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
> Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
> Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
> past so she knows where I'm coming from. In line with her
> comments below I'd like to suggest a possible scenario for an
> NFB-run guide dog program:
>
> Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
> centers for blind adults and youth there would be no need for a
> facility for housing students in training to be constructed.
> Hold on folks.
> Students
> wishing to
> obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
> complete the
> 6-9 month program at one of the centers. During the student's
> "Bootcamp training" the center has an opportunity to come to
> know
> the student inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of
> background information on the applicant to the guide dog unit.
> Unlike current guide dog programs that must rely on references
> and other information that may be true or false the NFB guide
> dog program will have all ready had accurate information
> gathered
> for them by the training center and can be assured that the
> applicant is a suitable candidate for a dog.
>
> This approach will also assure the guide dog program that
> the
> student is up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of
> transferring them to the use of a dog. Students that
> successfully complete the cane travel component of their
> immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
> This
> approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
> other aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted
> time students often experience when at guide dog training
> facilities.
>
> Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
> to wear sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes
> and participating in designated center activities. Like
> students
> who undergo cane travel instruction at our centers those
> training
> with dogs would be encouraged to travel on their own prior to
> completion of the training. In the beginning they could be
> accompanied by an experienced guide dog user/trainer but would
> be
> expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on
> their
> own using their dogs.
>
> As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
> operate similar to those of current guide dog programs. The
> program would operate its own breeding component or obtain
> suitable dogs from donations. The usual period of socialization
> and puppy raising wouldn't be that much different than is done
> by
> current guide dog programs. The dogs would return for a period
> of training when they're taught how to guide a blind person.
> Once the dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind
> owner
> they along with an instructor would be sent to the center where
> the student receiving the dog will be trained. Alternatively
> the
> NFB guide dog program could operate from one of our centers.
> Those wishing to obtain dogs once their "Bootcamp"
> training is complete would transfer to that center for training
> with the dog. Using all ready existing facilities to house
> students in training is one way to reduce the cost of training
> guide
> dogs.
>
> The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
> guide dog program could work but I'm sure others would have
> additional ideas. If it's to happen at all the discussion must
> continue at a cost of 0 to participants. All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
>
> I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold. First I
> would like to see a more in depth background investigation of
> the
> blind applicant. Do a criminal background check, require more
> references, ask the neighbors...whatever it takes. Adoption
> agencies place children into homes surely we can figure out a
> way to more accurately know what sort of situation the dog will
> be
> placed into.
> Secondly, I think there are already agencies in place for
> dealing with animal abuse, the police and animal control. I
> don't see any reason why these agencies can't be used in cases
> of neglect or abuse.
>
> In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
> the dog in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid
> point.
> We
> have
> to stop expecting everything for nothing. I like the Seeing
> Eye's concept of charging the student. I do wish that the cost
> had increased over the years with the cost of living. It has
> been $150 since the beginning of the school in 1928. I think
> that's the right year.
> $150
> was a very different sum of money then and now.
>
> I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
> substantially lower sums of money than $60,000. If you look at
> the various guide dog programs and how much each claims it costs
> to train a dog, the numbers vary widely. All those buildings,
> fancy food, excessive equipment and other niceties cost money.
>
> Julie
>
>
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> Cordially,
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> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for
> anything"
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> "Stand up for your rights"
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cum laude Auburn University
e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
"If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
Peter Q Wolfe
"Stand up for your rights"
Bob Marley
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