[Blindtlk] an apology received

Wed May 15 18:18:51 UTC 2013

Sorry, but, I'm very much afraid that this is one of those times when real life makes the best words of any philosophy a little tricky to apply literally.  We know philisoflically what should be the case:  however, as a matter of human reality, real life just will not cooperate some times.  Perhaps, though, there is a solution based in part on what Mike just said.  We know when something isn't accessible:  but, since we have-or see to have-a little bit of a gray area where we are working in, it's we who need to define the standard.  Just saying "make it accessible" is, to speak frankly, not enough and perhaps, I dare say, a little vague.  What one blind person considers accessible might not be at all to another.  For example, a person familiar with Apple Voice OVer might regard the Mac or Iphone as quite perhaps even completely accessible:  but, on the other hand, a blind person not at all familiar with the affor mentioned products might disagree.  A person familiar with browsing the internet and who is also familiar with sites which are heavily laden with graphics might be able to get around it with the greatest proficiency:  while, at the same time, a novis would have all kinds of  difficulty.

Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in!
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On May 15, 2013, at 1:08 PM, "blind411" <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:

> 	Those damned flies! How can we keep them out of our ointment? Maybe
> we could design a top too small for them to enter! (grin)
> 
> Marion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Freeman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:32 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] an apology received
> 
> Marion: 
> The fly in the ointment is that the legal definition of accessibility is
> cloudy at best. It is much easier to determine that a website or piece of
> software is inaccessible than it is to rigorously define when they are
> accessible and complying with the law. 
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> On May 15, 2013, at 9:13, "blind411" <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> Daniel,
>>   As for the question of whether or not Amazon or any other company 
>> is required to make their websites accessible, I believe it is less a 
>> matter of whether or not they want to do so than what the law requires 
>> of them. For instance, if a brick & mortar store were to design a 
>> building with an entrance only accessible by stairs and a doorway that 
>> is only 24" wide, what would the law, implemented by building code 
>> have to say about it? It would say that they are required to have an 
>> equitable alternative entry for those patrons using a wheelchair. It 
>> would not be up to them to decide whether or not this is done as it is 
>> a legal requirement. Sure, those who use wheelchairs would have the 
>> choice to go elsewhere, but why should they if this entity has what they
> want at a price they are willing to pay?
>>   The law has already affirmed that, just as a brick & mortar 
>> facility is required to be accessible, so an electronic facility is 
>> required to be accessible. Just as no respectable licensed architect 
>> or building contractor would consider a building with physical 
>> barriers, those who create the architecture of the internet must also
> build facilities without barriers.
>> The law has affirmed this and, as consumers, we need to demand it be done!
>> 
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Daniel Garcia
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:12 AM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] an apology received
>> 
>> I do find it laughable that some people believe that the Amazons of 
>> the world are so thinned skinned that they will refrain from making 
>> their products accessible in order to avoid what they perceive to be a 
>> negative press release from a "militant "organization. As far as 
>> whether Amazon has to make their products accessible, well, I supposed 
>> that if they don't want our business they don't have to, but if they 
>> do, then it's probably a good idea.
>> 
>> Daniel
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray 
>> Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:57 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] an apology received
>> 
>> Quite so Mike-Quite so.  
>> 
>> Perhaps a truly nutral tone might have suited better.
>> 
>> But oh well.  What's done is done.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the 
>> blind built-in!
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>> 
>> On May 12, 2013, at 5:43 PM, "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Good show.
>>> 
>>> You also might want to tell your friend that NFB might have been more 
>>> positive (though for the life of me, I can't see a reason we should 
>>> bow down and worship Amazon for doing what they ought to have done
>>> anyway) if amazon wasn't trying to tout inaccessible software for use 
>>> in schools or imply that the Kindle app was good enough to do this.
>>> 
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray 
>>> Foret Jr
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 4:56 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] an apology received
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> You may reacall that, last night, I posted my comments on this list 
>>> concerning criticism of the NFB.  This morning, I received an apology 
>>> from one of the participants in that podcast.  I feel it only proper 
>>> to send along what the person said to me.
>>> "I want to express my apology for what I said and ought not to have 
>>> said on the podcast. I read the article, and though I feel, as you 
>>> said, that their message wasn't in tone what it ought to have been, I 
>>> myself ought not to have been so quick to judge based on only the 
>>> negative criticisms of others and not taking the time to see the 
>>> entire picture. That was poor judgement on my part and I really need 
>>> to be more careful as to better inform myself instead of feeding on 
>>> just the negative criticism. Again, my sincere apologies".
>>> 
>>> For the record, I accepted.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the 
>>> blind built-in!
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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