[Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

Wed Sep 10 23:55:52 UTC 2014

Judge me if you like people. It doesn't matter. I have used the
clicking once or twice just because I had heard about it and wanted to
try it. It does indeed work. I tend to tap my cane or snap my fingers
although you have to be pretty close to a solid object to do it. I was
on campus one day and there is a particular spot heading towards a
building I needed and I thought there was nobody there but you never
know there couldd've easily been somebody sitting on a bench quietly
reading or studying. I don't care . It is not my preference and Id've
not done it around others so as not to look foolish. People shun or
fear what they don't understand. Kinda like that biblical reference to
tongues but that's for another list. As to whether it is socially
acceptable, is it so too feel all over walls to locate signage for
restrooms. No, but we do it, or walk in if said sinage can't be found.
One deep breath in and you'll know. great discussion folks!
Danielle

On 9/10/14, Carly Mihalakis via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Indeed, many blind people don't know how to use
> their flash sonar. It is in such situations the
> cane which, for me, at least still offers
> tremendous feedback, even though echolocation
> serves a grater majority of my orientation needs.
> Echolocation, so far as I can see, merely
> augments information derived from the cane, does
> not substitute it. In my opinion, nothing is
> meant to substitute any commonly used strategies. via blindtlk wrote:
>>When I have talked with Daniel Kish with the thought of doing an article
>> for
>>the Braille Monitor, I read some of their material. I don't believe that
>>they suggest this is a substitute for the cane but in enhancement of what
>>one can perceive. Whether we like the idea of making clicking noises or
>> not,
>>I bet we have all used finger snaps, toe taps, or some other noise in the
>>environment. I grew up thinking that everyone had echolocation. I didn't
>>know that that was its name, but people were so amazed that I had it that
>>one day I wanted to show my aunt that she too could do it. I took her to
>> our
>>garage door, made her back up about ten steps, convinced her to close her
>>eyes, and confidently said that if she only walked forward until she heard
>>the reflected noise, she would be all right. The only noise that both of
>> us
>>heard was her hitting the door. I was surprised. She was angry. So, while
>>the skill seems to have come naturally to me, I am prepared to say that
>> not
>>everyone has it.
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>>Jacobson via blindtlk
>>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 2:43 PM
>>To: Larry Wayland via blindtlk
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works
>>
>>I could detect poles when I was younger and still can sometimes as well as
>>objects sitting in the middle of a sidewalk. I'm not advocating not using
>> a
>>cane, though, just trying to contribute to the understanding of the
>>technique.  There may be people who can detect steps down but I can't say
>> I
>>was ever good at it.  Although there is nothing for sound to bounce off
>> of,
>>one can here the constant surface of a sidewalk or floor.  Therefore, if
>> one
>>can detect the absence of that surface in front of them, one might deduce
>>that there was a step down.  One might be able to tell that the surface is
>>lower in front of them thus indicating a step down.  It is hard to
>> explain,
>>but you hear more than you would think, but one's ability to hear such
>>things can be affected by the noise that is around them, so it does not
>>replace a cane in my opinion.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Steve Jacobson
>>
>>On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:10:23 -0500, Larry Wayland via blindtlk wrote:
>>
>> >No, there would be nothing for the sound to bounce off of.
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherri
>> >via blindtlk
>> >Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 7:52 AM
>> >To: Cindy Ray; Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works
>>
>> >I don't see how anyone can echolocate down-going curbs, objects, holes,
>>etc.
>> >without a cane. Can anyone do that?
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Cindy Ray via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >To: "Robin" <robin-melvin at comcast.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List"
>> ><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:21 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works
>>
>>
>> >Well, I have used finger snapping, clicking of the tongue sometimes, the
>> >cane, whatever. But I canâ¬"t see how you can use this echo location
>>without a
>> >cane or something. I donâ¬"t think you can travel as quickly, you are
>> > less
>> >likely to know until too late that you are stepping off of an edged
>> >sidewalk, and if there is construction or lawn mowers going echo
>> > location
>> >does not work. I used to not use a cane at school, and they used to edge
>>the
>> >sidewalks.
>>
>> >Cindy
>>
>> >On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Robin via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> Regarding the instruction of EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar), 2 of the
>> >> people I hear who train people in its use are Justin Louchart and
>> >> Daniel
>> >> Kish.
>> >>
>> >> Daniel Kish is probably the individual, who demonstrated cycling using
>> >> EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar).
>> >>
>> >> I've heard he has established a NonProfit Organization in Southern
>> >> California (World Access for the Blind), and frequently travels the
>> >> world
>>
>> >> teaching its use. He is also the individual, who taught Ben Underwood,
>>who
>> >> Passed Away.
>> >>
>> >> What is more "socially acceptable" a White Cane or a GuideDog, a White
>> >> Cane or "Tongue Clicking, Tongue Clicking or a GuideDog? I say
>> >> whatever
>> >> works although it would greatly enhance an individual's repitoire if
>> >> he/she possessed at least 2 of the 3 Mobility skills to rely on. This
>> >> is
>> >> just my personal opinion. I don't really care if it is "socially
>> >> acceptable" or not
>> >>
>> >> At 04:01 AM 9/8/2014, you wrote:
>> >>> They make clickers that are mechanical.   they aren't electronic, just
>> >>> a
>>
>> >>> piece of metal bent in such a way that when you push it, it makes a
>>click
>> >>> sound.  they cost about $1 and can be found in any pet store.  they
>> >>> were
>>
>> >>> first used in dolphin training, but are now used in all sorts of
>> >>> animal
>> >>> training. I'm not sure that it's much more socially acceptable to go
>> >>> around clicking one of these things than it would be to do the tongue
>> >>> click though. Probably a bit, but I still think you'd look odd unless
>>you
>> >>> had a dog along that you were training. I'd also like to add a note
>>about
>> >>> the concept of socially acceptable.   the cane is considered socially
>> >>> acceptable because we, blind folks, have made it so.  If, instead
>> >>> many
>> >>> moons ago, ancient blind folks decided that the click noise was the
>> >>> way
>> >>> to go and used that and educated sighted folks on that, then the
>> >>> clicks
>> >>> would be what is socially acceptable.  It's all in the history and
>> >>> the
>> >>> perception.  There is nothing more or less weird about the clicking.
>> >>> It's just not what we are used to.  If all blind people everywhere
>> >>> decided to use exclusively echolocation and use clicking, it would
>> >>> soon
>> >>> become the norm and socially acceptable. Just sayin' Julie
>> >>> -----Original
>>
>> >>> Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via blindtlk Sent: Sunday,
>> >>> September
>> >>> 07, 2014 9:25 PM To: Christine Olivares via blindtlk Subject: Re:
>> >>> [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works Part of the challenge is that
>> >>> one
>> >>> feels a little conspicuous clicking sometimes as that is sometimes
>> >>> associated with other developmental disabilities.  It is too bad in a
>>way
>> >>> because it is effective.  I have found that I can get some of the
>> >>> same
>> >>> information, though, from the tapping of my cane, snapping my
>> >>> fingers,
>> >>> and from rattling keys.  I have sometimes thought that some sort of
>> >>> electronic sound source could be developed that could be even more
>> >>> effective and also more socially acceptable. Best regards, Steve
>>Jacobson
>> >>> On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:23:10 -0400, Christine Olivares via blindtlk
>>wrote:
>> >>>  >Hello all, >I have a totally blind friend who uses echo location
>> >>> but
>>he
>> >>> does not click. >He will use his foot and stamp on the ground or
>> >>> floor.
>> >>> On the other hand, >my husband is also blind and he doesnÃ¢â> wrote:
>> >>>> >>>>> HI >>>>> Since when does not
>> >>> having a cane mean that you aren't >>>> blind.  Very very judgmental.
>> >>>  >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>>
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