[Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

[Judy Jones]

A better test is to move your hand back and forth beside your ear, while you 
hum or make some noise.   That is a simplified demonstration of what I am 
calling object perception, but I have used that as group facilitator for 
sighted workshops and classes, and everyone can hear sound bouncing off an 
object, in this case, their hand, close to the ear.  I will agree, though, 
that most people do not recognize object perception for what it is, so have 
never felt a need to develop it as a distinct skill or help.

Judy


-----Original Message----- 
From: Gary Wunder via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 10:00 AM
To: 'Steve Jacobson' ; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

When I have talked with Daniel Kish with the thought of doing an article for
the Braille Monitor, I read some of their material. I don't believe that
they suggest this is a substitute for the cane but in enhancement of what
one can perceive. Whether we like the idea of making clicking noises or not,
I bet we have all used finger snaps, toe taps, or some other noise in the
environment. I grew up thinking that everyone had echolocation. I didn't
know that that was its name, but people were so amazed that I had it that
one day I wanted to show my aunt that she too could do it. I took her to our
garage door, made her back up about ten steps, convinced her to close her
eyes, and confidently said that if she only walked forward until she heard
the reflected noise, she would be all right. The only noise that both of us
heard was her hitting the door. I was surprised. She was angry. So, while
the skill seems to have come naturally to me, I am prepared to say that not
everyone has it.


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jacobson via blindtlk
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 2:43 PM
To: Larry Wayland via blindtlk
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

I could detect poles when I was younger and still can sometimes as well as
objects sitting in the middle of a sidewalk. I'm not advocating not using a
cane, though, just trying to contribute to the understanding of the
technique.  There may be people who can detect steps down but I can't say I
was ever good at it.  Although there is nothing for sound to bounce off of,
one can here the constant surface of a sidewalk or floor.  Therefore, if one
can detect the absence of that surface in front of them, one might deduce
that there was a step down.  One might be able to tell that the surface is
lower in front of them thus indicating a step down.  It is hard to explain,
but you hear more than you would think, but one's ability to hear such
things can be affected by the noise that is around them, so it does not
replace a cane in my opinion.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:10:23 -0500, Larry Wayland via blindtlk wrote:

>No, there would be nothing for the sound to bounce off of.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherri
>via blindtlk
>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 7:52 AM
>To: Cindy Ray; Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

>I don't see how anyone can echolocate down-going curbs, objects, holes,
etc.
>without a cane. Can anyone do that?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cindy Ray via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>To: "Robin" <robin-melvin at comcast.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List"
><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:21 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works


>Well, I have used finger snapping, clicking of the tongue sometimes, the
>cane, whatever. But I canâ¬"t see how you can use this echo location
without a
>cane or something. I donâ¬"t think you can travel as quickly, you are less
>likely to know until too late that you are stepping off of an edged
>sidewalk, and if there is construction or lawn mowers going echo location
>does not work. I used to not use a cane at school, and they used to edge
the
>sidewalks.

>Cindy

>On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Robin via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

>> Regarding the instruction of EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar), 2 of the
>> people I hear who train people in its use are Justin Louchart and Daniel
>> Kish.
>>
>> Daniel Kish is probably the individual, who demonstrated cycling using
>> EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar).
>>
>> I've heard he has established a NonProfit Organization in Southern
>> California (World Access for the Blind), and frequently travels the world

>> teaching its use. He is also the individual, who taught Ben Underwood,
who
>> Passed Away.
>>
>> What is more "socially acceptable" a White Cane or a GuideDog, a White
>> Cane or "Tongue Clicking, Tongue Clicking or a GuideDog? I say whatever
>> works although it would greatly enhance an individual's repitoire if
>> he/she possessed at least 2 of the 3 Mobility skills to rely on. This is
>> just my personal opinion. I don't really care if it is "socially
>> acceptable" or not
>>
>> At 04:01 AM 9/8/2014, you wrote:
>>> They make clickers that are mechanical.   they aren't electronic, just a

>>> piece of metal bent in such a way that when you push it, it makes a
click
>>> sound.  they cost about $1 and can be found in any pet store.  they were

>>> first used in dolphin training, but are now used in all sorts of animal
>>> training. I'm not sure that it's much more socially acceptable to go
>>> around clicking one of these things than it would be to do the tongue
>>> click though. Probably a bit, but I still think you'd look odd unless
you
>>> had a dog along that you were training. I'd also like to add a note
about
>>> the concept of socially acceptable.   the cane is considered socially
>>> acceptable because we, blind folks, have made it so.  If, instead many
>>> moons ago, ancient blind folks decided that the click noise was the way
>>> to go and used that and educated sighted folks on that, then the clicks
>>> would be what is socially acceptable.  It's all in the history and the
>>> perception.  There is nothing more or less weird about the clicking.
>>> It's just not what we are used to.  If all blind people everywhere
>>> decided to use exclusively echolocation and use clicking, it would soon
>>> become the norm and socially acceptable. Just sayin' Julie -----Original

>>> Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via blindtlk Sent: Sunday, September
>>> 07, 2014 9:25 PM To: Christine Olivares via blindtlk Subject: Re:
>>> [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works Part of the challenge is that one
>>> feels a little conspicuous clicking sometimes as that is sometimes
>>> associated with other developmental disabilities.  It is too bad in a
way
>>> because it is effective.  I have found that I can get some of the same
>>> information, though, from the tapping of my cane, snapping my fingers,
>>> and from rattling keys.  I have sometimes thought that some sort of
>>> electronic sound source could be developed that could be even more
>>> effective and also more socially acceptable. Best regards, Steve
Jacobson
>>> On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:23:10 -0400, Christine Olivares via blindtlk
wrote:
>>>  >Hello all, >I have a totally blind friend who uses echo location but
he
>>> does not click. >He will use his foot and stamp on the ground or floor.
>>> On the other hand, >my husband is also blind and he doesnââ> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> HI >>>>> Since when does not
>>> having a cane mean that you aren't >>>> blind.  Very very judgmental.
>>>  >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>>
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