[Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

Sun Sep 4 00:47:34 UTC 2016

Hi,

Good question and as some say, the definition of insanity.
As you said, an opinion and obviously we will always be at opposite ends of
any issue.
I have never met you and yet every response has been as an a$$.
Bryan

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
Andrews via blindtlk
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:21 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: David Andrews
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

You are of course entitled to your view, and no organization is 
perfect.  On the other hand, Brian, I have found you to be one of the 
most negative persons I have encountered.  You never have anything 
good to say about anything.  You say you are truth telling, and you 
manage to put down everything that comes across our lists.  If you 
are so down on the NFB, and all we do, and how we do it, why are you 
here!  If it is as bad as you say, how can you keep subjecting yourself to
it.

Dave

At 10:47 PM 9/2/2016, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm not going to site situation a versus situation b and even forget what
>the original message was now.
>I will say that what I hoped for and thought the nfb could accomplish are a
>good 180 degrees apart from about 20 years ago and will say not much has
>changed at all personally due to the nfb.
>Sorry that I have disagreed with specific projects over the years and
>learned the hard way that basically only yes men are welcomed.
>Bryan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU
>President via blindtlk
>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 9:37 PM
>To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Cc: NAGDU President
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
>
>Bryan,
>
>         I like how you use the NFB lists to criticize the organization
>sponsoring it. I also like how you point out what the NFB has not done but
>fail to recognize how much better your life is than those of past
>generations due to the fact that the NFB exists.
>
>Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan
>Schulz via blindtlk
>Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:02 PM
>To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Cc: Bryan Schulz
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
>
>Hi,
>
>Tell me how great the nfb is when they can't stop the law from saying one
>third of the blame for an accident was the fault of the blind person just
>being there?
>The nfb didn't go to court for that case!
>Bryan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
>Mihalakis via blindtlk
>Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:45 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
>Cc: Carly Mihalakis
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
>
>Every day is white cane day!At 05:29 PM 10/2/2015, Ericka via blindtlk
>wrote:
> >Hi Bob and all
> >
> >I love your idea of getting the DMV, police etc. involved. I just spoke
> >to the aging and disability resource center today to inquire whether
> >they were doing anything community education about White cane day
> >coming up. When the lady at the desk gave me the Hem and haw over
> >answering my question I figured the answer was no. She did give me the
> >name of someone who does a lot of the community events.
> >I love the notice for this Paula person and she did call me right back
> >this afternoon. Unfortunately I was already at my next stop, the
> >grocery store and missed the call. So we'll see how things go on
> >Monday. We are having a fun and fit fair for people with disabilities
> >coming up. Maybe this can be incorporated somehow although it's last
> >minute. After all, walking in your community is not just independence
> >and getting your mines done; it's also keeping yourself healthy and fit
> >too. Many times doctors tell you to walk to lose weight etc. We can
> >still hear the birds and the rustle of trees so there's benefit and it
> >relates.
> >
> >Ericka Short
> >"Friends are like flowers in the garden of life"
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Sep 28, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Bob Hachey via blindtlk
> > <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > > I hear you loud and clear. Seems that driving in America is the
> > > fourth inalienable right, up there with life, liberty and the
> > > pursuit of
> > happiness.
> > > While it is we the pedestrians who have been given this right by law
> > > in theory, in practice, the rights seem to go to the driver, no
> > > matter how careless or thoughtless that driver may be.
> > > Perhaps instead of raising a cane to call attention to ourselves
> > we ought to
> > > raise Cain, (note spelling)
> > > And, I'm not joking.
> > > I love the idea of White cane day which is coming soon. But I wish
> > > we
>could
> > > be more successful at getting not just the usual folks from the
>Commission
> > > for the Blind involved, but the registry of motor vehicles, local
>police,
> > > etc.
> > > Bob Hachey
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Mark Tardif
> > > via blindtlk
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:28 PM
> > > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > > Cc: Mark Tardif
> > > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
> > >
> > > There is something about some people who, when they get behind the
>wheel,
> > > turn into creatures you and I wouldn't recognize.  Joking, but just
>barely.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Tardif
> > > Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:52 PM
> > > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > > Cc: Mike Freeman
> > > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
> > >
> > > Arrielle:
> > >
> > > I don't worry much about getting cars to conform to a certain
> > > behavior pattern because (and I'm joking here but not altogether) I
> > consider the very
> > > act of getting behind the wheel tantamount to lowering one's IQ by
> > > fifty percent. Put less acidly, I figure I have little-to-no control
> > > over what cars do so I try to read their behavior as best I can and
> > > feel that the position my cane is in (other than aggressively
> > > sticking it out right as
>I
> > > start to cross) will have little influence on driver behavior.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > > Arielle Silverman via blindtlk
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:04 PM
> > > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > > Cc: Arielle Silverman
> > > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
> > >
> > > Christine does use a cane, the issue is being told to hold the
> > cane up while
> > > waiting to cross the street, as a signal, then putting it down and
>crossing
> > > with it. As to Mike's comment, How do sighted pedestrians signal
> > > that
>they
> > > are crossing, without a cane or a turn signal? I assume they use
> > > some
>form
> > > of body language. I consider extending my cane slightly in front
> > of me to be
> > > an appropriate form of body language. Like Christine I don't see the
> > > additional value of raising my cane up off the ground. Further, I
> > agree with
> > > what I think she was saying, which is that we want cars to drive
>normally
> > > rather than stopping in the intersection or doing other weird
> > things because
> > > we are blind. If they depart from normal car behavior, they give us
> > > confusing information about whether or not it is safe to cross.
> > Of course if
> > > I am in the middle of crossing I want cars to stop. That goes for
> > > any pedestrian, blind or sighted.
> > > Arielle
> > >
> > >> On 9/27/15, River Linda via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Are you saying you can see well enough to cross the street without
> > >> using a cane? Or, you just do not want to use it because you are
> > >> embarrassed to use it and you do not want the attention from people?
> > >> The cane is for your safety. As you have described holding your
> > >> cane vertically off the ground in front of you, the cars coming
> > >> from behind you will not see your cane. I was taught to keep the
> > >> cane tip on the ground and hold it out diagonally from you so that
> > >> cars coming from all
> > > four directions can see it.
> > >>
> > >> As for people grabbing you, you have to tell them how you want to
> > >> be treated. When people grab me, I tell them to wait and let me
> > >> show you how to help me. When people make that comment about me
> > >> being amazing because I can cut my food and eat it, I simply respond
>with "you, too".
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Saturday, September 26, 2015, Szostak, Christine via blindtlk <
> > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi All,
> > >>>  Ok, this might be a very odd question, but I was just thinking
> > >>> about this and to me, it  seems really illogical.
> > >>>
> > >>>  When I was getting O&M to help with transitioning to a cane,
> > >>> every time we stopped at a curb to cross a street, the instructor
> > >>> would have me hold the cane directly in front of me and hold it up
> > >>> in the air vertically about
> > >>> 2-3 or so inches off the ground. The explanation given to me for
> > >>> this was so that others would see that I am blind and am using a
cane.
> > >>>
> > >>>  The reasons that this seems a bit odd to me as a good practice are:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  I do not want a car to stop at a stop sign and wait for me to
> > >>> cross as I have always been taught not to trust in drivers that
> > >>> say, go ahead I will wait because they may not see other cars
> > >>> coming that could hit me if I follow their advice. Also, just
> > >>> because they stop, it does not mean that they see you so the
> > >>> signal you are assuming they are giving you, may not be the case.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  I do not necessarily want to bring attention to my blindness.
> > >>>
> > >>> 3)  I tend to look younger than I am and thus people, to my
> > >>> consternation, always try  to grab my arm... to help me. When I
> > >>> was in training for one of my prior guides, my instructor always
> > >>> joked that I was a really touchable person because total strangers
> > >>> would try to drag me across the street since they just assumed
> > >>> that I did not know  how to cross a street with a light:). This
> > >>> happens to me, regardless of whether it is with traffic or even in
> > >>> places like restaurants, total strangers will frequently grab my
> > >>> arm, put their arms around my shoulders... and tell me how amazing
> > >>> I am to be eating so well:). Since I really do not want this type
> > >>> of attention, I tend not to want  to use methods that are likely
> > >>> to induce it:). Since I could see holding a cane in the air as one
> > >>> good way to get this type of attention, I am not overly eager to
keep
>up this practice.
> > >>>
> > >>>  Thus, do others here hold up their canes while standing on curbs
> > >>> and if so, what has been your experience with respect to the above
> > >>> issues? I really, personally do not like this practice as it would
> > >>> seem to me that if you are a competent traveler who follows the
> > >>> rules of the pedestrian and knows what you are doing, then you
> > >>> should not need to do this as it simply tells someone, this person
> > >>> is blind so stop and wait for them as they will not be a safe
> > >>> traveler or is trying to signal that they need your help.
> > >>> Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding the point of doing this
> > >>> but I just really feel like this is an out-of-date practice, one
> > >>> that tries to heavily point out blindness which would seem to lead
> > >>> to increasing the stigma rather than showing that we are competent
> > >>> individuals, and something that could actually be dangerous rather
> > >>> than helpful to a cane traveler.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>  I can understand this type of practice if you want for some
> > >>> reason to indicate that you are blind or have a VI (i.e., when
> > >>> you are concerned that you may trip... and do not want individuals
> > >>> to just think that you are
> > >>> clumsy...) so please know that I am not trying to discount these
> > >>> types of situations rather it is just on the curb side if you are
> > >>> just trying to cross the street  and have any of the above three
> > >>> reasons for not wanting to do so that I am asking about and
> > >>> feeling
>this
> > > way about.
> > >>> Happy weekend all!
> > >>> Chris

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