[Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

Sun Sep 4 02:40:52 UTC 2016

Guys! Take it off the list!

Judy
Sent From The U2 Mini 

----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Schulz via bltlk  <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
To:  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
CC: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016 6:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Bltlk] [BlTalk] Raising a Cane

>
>
> Hi,
> 
> Good question and as some say, the definition of insanity.
> As you said, an opinion and obviously we will always be at opposite ends of
> any issue.
> I have never met you and yet every response has been as an a$..
> Bryan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bltlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
> Andrews via bltlk
> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 3:21 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: David Andrews
> Subject: Re: [Bltlk] [BlTalk] Raising a Cane
> 
> You are of course entitled to your view, and no organization is 
> perfect.  On the other hand, Brian, I have found you to be one of the 
> most negative persons I have encountered.  You never have anything 
> good to say about anything.  You say you are truth telling, and you 
> manage to put down everything that comes across our lists.  If you 
> are so down on the NFB, and all we do, and how we do it, why are you 
> here!  If it is as bad as you say, how can you keep subjecting yourself to
> it.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 10:47 PM 9/2/2016, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm not going to site situation a versus situation b and even forget what
>the original message was now.
>I will say that what I hoped for and thought the nfb could accomplish are a
>good 180 degrees apart from about 20 years ago and will say not much has
>changed at all personally due to the nfb.
>Sorry that I have disagreed with specific projects over the years and
>learned the hard way that basically only yes men are welcomed.
>Bryan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bltlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU
>President via bltlk
>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 9:37 PM
>To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Cc: NAGDU President
>Subject: Re: [Bltlk] [BlTalk] Raising a Cane
>
>Bryan,
>
>         I like how you use the NFB lists to criticize the organization
>sponsoring it. I also like how you point out what the NFB has not done but
>fail to recognize how much better your life is than those of past
>generations due to the fact that the NFB exists.
>
>Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bltlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan
>Schulz via bltlk
>Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:02 PM
>To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Cc: Bryan Schulz
>Subject: Re: [Bltlk] [BlTalk] Raising a Cane
>
>Hi,
>
>Tell me how great the nfb is when they can't stop the law from saying one
>third of the blame for an accident was the fault of the blind person just
>being there?
>The nfb didn't go to court for that case!
>Bryan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bltlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
>Mihalakis via bltlk
>Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:45 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
>Cc: Carly Mihalakis
>Subject: Re: [Bltlk] [BlTalk] Raising a Cane
>
>Every day is white cane dayffAt 05:29 PM 10/2/2015, Ericka via bltlk
>wrote:
> >Hi Bob and all
> >
> >I love your idea of getting the DMV, police etc. involved. I just spoke
> >to the aging and disability resource center today to inquire whether
> >they were doing anything community education about White cane day
> >coming up. When the lady at the desk gave me the Hem and haw over
> >answering my question I figured the answer was no. She did give me the
> >name of someone who does a lot of the community events.
> >I love the notice for this Paula person and she did call me right back
> >this afternoon. Unfortunately I was already at my next stop, the
> >grocery store and missed the call. So we'll see how things go on
> >Monday. We are having a fun and fit fair for people with disabilities
> >coming up. Maybe this can be incorporated somehow although it's last
> >minute. After all, walking in your community is not just independence
> >and getting your mines done; it's also keeping yourself healthy and fit
> >too. Many times doctors tell you to walk to lose weight etc. We can
> >still hear the birds and the rustle of trees so there's benefit and it
> >relates.
> >
> >Ericka Short
> >by Friends are like flowers in the garden of life"
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Sep 28, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Bob Hachey via bltlk
> > <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > > I hear you loud and clear. Seems that driving in America is the
> > > fourth inalienable right, up there with life, liberty and the
> > > pursuit of
> > happiness.
> > > While it is we the pedestrians who have been given this right by law
> > > in theory, in practice, the rights seem to go to the driver, no
> > > matter how careless or thoughtless that driver may be.
> > > Perhaps instead of raising a cane to call attention to ourselves
> > we ought to
> > > raise Cain, (note spelling)
> > > And, I'm not joking.
> > > I love the idea of White cane day which is coming soon. But I wish
> > > we
>could
> > > be more successful at getting not just the usual folks from the
>Commission
> > > for the Blind involved, but the registry of motor vehicles, local
>police,
> > > etc.
> > > Bob Hachey
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bltlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Mark Tardif
> > > via bltlk
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:28 PM
> > > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > > Cc: Mark Tardif
> > > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Raising a Cane
> > >
> > > There is something about some people who, when they get behind the
>wheel,
> > > turn into creatures you and I wouldn't recognize.  Joking, but just
>barely.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Tardif
> > > Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Freeman via bltlk
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:52 PM
> > > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > > Cc: Mike Freeman
> > > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Raising a Cane
> > >
> > > Arrielle:
> > >
> > > I don't worry much about getting cars to conform to a certain
> > > behavior pattern because (and I'm joking here but not altogether) I
> > consider the very
> > > act of getting behind the wheel tantamount to lowering one's IQ by
> > > fifty percent. Put less acidly, I figure I have little-to-no control
> > > over what cars do so I try to read their behavior as best I can and
> > > feel that the position my cane is in (other than aggressively
> > > sticking it out right as
>I
> > > start to cross) will have little influence on driver behavior.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bltlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > > Arielle Silverman via bltlk
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:04 PM
> > > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > > Cc: Arielle Silverman
> > > Subject: Re: [Bltlk] Raising a Cane
> > >
> > > Christine does use a cane, the issue is being told to hold the
> > cane up while
> > > waiting to cross the street, as a signal, then putting it down and
>crossing
> > > with it. As to Mike's comment, How do sighted pedestrians signal
> > > that
>they
> > > are crossing, without a cane or a turn signal? I assume they use
> > > some
>form
> > > of body language. I consider extending my cane slightly in front
> > of me to be
> > > an appropriate form of body language. Like Christine I don't see the
> > > additional value of raising my cane up off the ground. Further, I
> > agree with
> > > what I think she was saying, which is that we want cars to drive
>normally
> > > rather than stopping in the intersection or doing other weird
> > things because
> > > we are blind. If they depart from normal car behavior, they give us
> > > confusing information about whether or not it is safe to cross.
> > Of course if
> > > I am in the middle of crossing I want cars to stop. That goes for
> > > any pedestrian, blind or sighted.
> > > Arielle
> > >
> > >> On 9/27/15, River Linda via bltlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Are you saying you can see well enough to cross the street without
> > >> using a cane? Or, you just do not want to use it because you are
> > >> embarrassed to use it and you do not want the attention from people?
> > >> The cane is for your safety. As you have described holding your
> > >> cane vertically off the ground in front of you, the cars coming
> > >> from behind you will not see your cane. I was taught to keep the
> > >> cane tip on the ground and hold it out diagonally from you so that
> > >> cars coming from all
> > > four directions can see it.
> > >>
> > >> As for people grabbing you, you have to tell them how you want to
> > >> be treated. When people grab me, I tell them to wait and let me
> > >> show you how to help me. When people make that comment about me
> > >> being amazing because I can cut my food and eat it, I simply respond
>with "you, too".
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Saturday, September 26, 2015, Szostak, Christine via bltlk <
> > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi All,
> > >>>  Ok, this might be a very odd question, but I was just thinking
> > >>> about this and to me, it  seems really illogical.
> > >>>
> > >>>  When I was getting O&M to help with transitioning to a cane,
> > >>> every time we stopped at a curb to cross a street, the instructor
> > >>> would have me hold the cane directly in front of me and hold it up
> > >>> in the air vertically about
> > >>> 2-3 or so inches off the ground. The explanation given to me for
> > >>> this was so that others would see that I am blind and am using a
> cane.
> > >>>
> > >>>  The reasons that this seems a bit odd to me as a good practice are:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  I do not want a car to stop at a stop sign and wait for me to
> > >>> cross as I have always been taught not to trust in drivers that
> > >>> say, go ahead I will wait because they may not see other cars
> > >>> coming that could hit me if I follow their advice. Also, just
> > >>> because they stop, it does not mean that they see you so the
> > >>> signal you are assuming they are giving you, may not be the case.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  I do not necessarily want to bring attention to my blindness.
> > >>>
> > >>> 3)  I tend to look younger than I am and thus people, to my
> > >>> consternation, always try  to grab my arm... to help me. When I
> > >>> was in training for one of my prior guides, my instructor always
> > >>> joked that I was a really touchable person because total strangers
> > >>> would try to drag me across the street since they just assumed
> > >>> that I did not know  how to cross a street with a light:). This
> > >>> happens to me, regardless of whether it is with traffic or even in
> > >>> places like restaurants, total strangers will frequently grab my
> > >>> arm, put their arms around my shoulders... and tell me how amazing
> > >>> I am to be eating so well:). Since I really do not want this type
> > >>> of attention, I tend not to want  to use methods that are likely
> > >>> to induce it:). Since I could see holding a cane in the air as one
> > >>> good way to get this type of attention, I am not overly eager to
> keep
>up this practice.
> > >>>
> > >>>  Thus, do others here hold up their canes while standing on curbs
> > >>> and if so, what has been your experience with respect to the above
> > >>> issues? I really, personally do not like this practice as it would
> > >>> seem to me that if you are a competent traveler who follows the
> > >>> rules of the pedestrian and knows what you are doing, then you
> > >>> should not need to do this as it simply tells someone, this person
> > >>> is blind so stop and wait for them as they will not be a safe
> > >>> traveler or is trying to signal that they need your help.
> > >>> Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding the point of doing this
> > >>> but I just really feel like this is an out-of-date practice, one
> > >>> that tries to heavily point out blindness which would seem to lead
> > >>> to increasing the stigma rather than showing that we are competent
> > >>> individuals, and something that could actually be dangerous rather
> > >>> than helpful to a cane traveler.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>  I can understand this type of practice if you want for some
> > >>> reason to indicate that you are blind or have a VI (idde., when
> > >>> you are concerned that you may trip... and do not want individuals
> > >>> to just think that you are
> > >>> clumsy''') so please know that I am not trying to discount these
> > >>> types of situations rather it is just on the curb side if you are
> > >>> just trying to cross the street  and have any of the above three
> > >>> reasons for not wanting to do so that I am asking about and
> > >>> feeling
>this
> > > way about.
> > >>> Happy weekend all!
> > >>> Chris
> 
> 
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> 
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