[BlindTlk] Braille books in old old

Wed Sep 4 22:42:39 UTC 2019

Steve,  thank you for sharing the history of the Opticon. It was fascinating! I was younger folks… In our 40s and younger don’t know these things. You really appreciate what you have when you know where you’ve been.

Ericka Nelson

> On Sep 4, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Steve Jacobson via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Ericka,
> 
> I am another Optacon user, and I find it frustrating that no current technology lets us do the same thing as an Optacon did.  However, I think we have to be careful not to glorify it too much.  There were many people who just couldn't get the hang of using it.  One moved a camera with the right hand and read with the left hand which meant that there was some coordination needed.  Also, the resolution of the display was much higher than what one sees on the braille display.  There were therefore people who  could read braille but whose fingers had trouble reading with an Optacon.  Reading speed was also an issue.  There were quite a few people who read up to 100 words per minute.  I am not aware of anybody who read much faster than that.  Those whom I knew that read 100 words per minute with an Optacon were also very fast braille readers, reading probably three times that rate in braille.  I tended to read for detail and my reading speed was not that good.  Also, one didn't just buy the unit and read.  There was a definite learning curve, and one really had to commit to reading a significant amount each day to achieve a maximum reading speed.  It also meant that many of us had to learn print letters and symbols as well.  Telesensory and other agencies offered training programs to get one started that lasted two weeks or so.  This training was not cheap and was a significant addition to the price.
> 
> In an effort to move toward making a more portable model and to make it less expensive, Telesensory developed the Optacon II which used some off-the-shelf parts that were custom made for the original optacon.  It also used some digital technology.  However, those of us who used the new optacon found that the images seemed less sharp than on the original optacon.  I don't know why that was.  That was disappointing, and it probably hurt sales some.  One would think that with today's technology that such a problem probably would be nonexistent.
> 
> Finally, Telesensory took the marketing approach that the Optacon could replace braille and pushed some to get it into the hands of young blind kids in schools.  Given that braille is often read more quickly by people who learn it at a young age, the idea that a young child could perhaps learn to read with an Optacon much faster was probably justifiable, but many of us thought that it was risky for kids to spend a lot of time learning the Optacon rather than learning braille.  I think all of these things caused the Optacon to disappear as a product.  
> 
> I've seen projects to build a new Optacon, but nothing solid seems to ever happen with those projects.  I must also say that even at the time, I wondered how we would have handled the success of the Optacon to see our ability to read controlled by a single company, at the expense of braille.  It never came to that, but it was not beyond the realm of possibility if faster reading speeds could have been achieved at the expense of learning braille.  
> 
> Also, the optacon did not provide us with a more convenient way to write.  There was an attachment that one could by that mounted the optacon camera on certain typewriters.  The attachment allowed one to see the character that was being typed allowing one to make more reliable corrections.  However, even portable typewriters of the day were not that small.
> 
> Another attachment allowed one to use the Optacon to read an electronic calculator.  Remember, they didn't talk until 1975 or so and the Optacon was available slightly before that time, and the first talking calculators were expensive.  Yet another attachment could be used to read computer screens.  At that time, talking computers were also not available.  
> 
> Both the availability of talking calculators and computers that supported braille and speech cut into the value of these additional attachments.  In those cases, the Optacon really didn't add value over the option of braille and speech.  That probably also cut into the market for the Optacon.  
> 
> Still, I have a much better sense of how print looks and the differences between different fonts and such because of the Optacon.  There are still times when I find I can read something that none of the OCR approaches reads, and I don't always know why.  Still, more often than not, I tend to try K-1000, Seeing-AI, or VoiceDream Scanner first when reading something because if they succeed they are faster, and over the years the KNFB reader has been very useful.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Steve Jacobson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindTlk <blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ericka via BlindTlk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2019 7:52 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Ericka <dotwriter1 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> 
> Why didn’t they just make a more portable model rather than abandon them? I remember hearing that the first K- NFB type reading things were in the late 70s. My husband uses Kurzweil 1000 on his computer. I don’t know how to use it. I use Seeing AI mostly. For the bottles, we both have a script to talk station.
> 
> Ericka Nelson
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:45 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, they are great, and individuals still sell them, and there are people who still repair them, so they are alive and well.
>> 
>> Yes, you are actually reading print with this mechanical device.  All this before OCR technology.  The blind person is the brains, and you are actually reading what a sighted person would see.
>> 
>> You can read round medicine bottles and things that OCR can't touch.
>> 
>> Judy
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Ericka via BlindTlk
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 7:09 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: Ericka
>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>> 
>> I saw one once but never got to use it. That was before I knew any braille at all. From what I understand it raised the printer somethings so you can read it. That would make sense Judy that you would understand. What do people do when they’re ancient up to cons die? You can’t replace them and I bet you can’t fix them too easily either. I heard they were pretty cool. 
>> 
>> Ericka Nelson
>> 
>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 8:00 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It makes verymuch sense to those of us that use an optacon.
>>> 
>>> Judy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Ericka via BlindTlk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:13 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Cc: Ericka
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think it makes less sense to people who have never seen print done to those of us who could reprint at one time in our lives. It makes sense to let you know whether something is in bold or not. And if you are formatting something to be printed and look good for the side of the world it’s important as well. The rest of the world centers titles a lot of times like on a resume for example. I do think it’s stupid that they took some signs away. Braille is a lot of extra pages. Someone told me once that it takes three braille pages to equal the information one printed page and that’s not including spacing such as between paragraphs etc.
>>> 
>>> I don’t think you guys realize how different print is from braille. And I wouldn’t expect any person who was born blind and I only read braille to understand. Just be nice to those of us who can.
>>> 
>>> Ericka Nelson
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Jesse Johnson via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I agree this new EB makes no sense at all
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:37 PM, Pamela Dominguez via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know we can't do anything about it.  I can read it somewhat better, depending on how much different stuff there is in it.  If it's just regular text, it's okay.  But I don't see any reason to ever write it, myself.  I just don't think I will be put in a situation where that is necessary.  Pam.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Hyde, David W. (ESC) via BlindTlk
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 11:16 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Cc: Hyde, David W. (ESC)
>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, whether we like it or not, the train has left the station. I can read UEB better than I can write it. Sixty years of doing it one way doesn't change in a moment. I still put words together, use signs that have gone away, and when reading, I come to a full stop when I see a, followed by tion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindTlk <blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jesse 
>>>>> Johnson via BlindTlk
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:11 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Jesse Johnson <jayjohnson66 at me.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think of the old saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it they broke 
>>>>> it by trying to fix it
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:07 AM, Ericka via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are words that you can’t combine together anymore like of the house to have a space between it. The sign for by like “by the seaside or byline Hass to be spelled out now.
>>>>>> Trust me, I’ve tried to read the stuff and I can’t. It’s too confusing. Punctuation changed a lot by the way. The simple.?, Etc. didn’t but have you looked at those parenthesis? Yeah they look a lot more like print so it’s easy for me to remember how to read.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ericka Nelson
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 12:13 AM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In US Braille:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dropped d at the beginning of a word is letters dis.
>>>>>>> In the middle is a double-d as in "daddy."
>>>>>>> At the end is a period.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dropped h at beginning is a open-quote In middle, not used in 
>>>>>>> literary braille.
>>>>>>> At the end, a question-mark.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dropped F:
>>>>>>> At beginning is the word "to."
>>>>>>> In the middle is a double-f.
>>>>>>> At the end is an exclamation point.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> These things aren't that much different in UEB, although some of the rules did change for UEB.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Judy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>>> Ericka via BlindTlk
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 7:20 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Cc: Ericka
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Judy, and I learn braille as a child or had no residual vision I probably could. However I find the US braille difficult. Dropped F, drop D and dropped H. is in weird places main something depending on where they are. That is confusing! I read faster in the new braille. I have children’s books and some religious things for the taking.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ericka Nelson
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi, Erika,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Actually, if you can do UEB braille, you can also read US.  There are differences in the punctuation and numbers formatting, but the numbers and letters themselves are all the same.  Most of the contractions are the same, they have done away with some of them, but you will never find a strange formation of dots you can't recognize.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I took the UEB course, just to know what it is like, and although I prefer US braille, I can read the UEB.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Judy
>>>>>>>> “Embrace the day with its mercies and blessings.”
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>>>> Ericka via BlindTlk
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 9:46 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Cc: Ericka
>>>>>>>> Subject: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’m wondering what people are doing with braille books that are in that were produced before the 2015 change over to UEB. I have braille books that I really don’t want to toss, but I can’t read them well enough in the pre-2015 braille to justify keeping. I’m willing to send them overseas or free matter them to someone who can’t send them overseas. Let me know.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ericka Nelson
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>>>>>>>> 9%40
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 40gm
>>>>>>> ail.com
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