[blparent] it somces closer

Wed Dec 16 10:30:33 UTC 2009

What part of Minnesota do you live in? i used to live in Minneapolis and 
Saint Paul.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dena Wainwright" <dena at envogueaccess.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer


> This is a very difficult issue, and there is no right or wrong answer.
>
> Mike, I'm not sure where your dog comes from, but before I had Elise I had 
> a trainer from GDB visit me to teach me the proper way to pull the 
> stroller and work a dog. While she was here, I asked her about this exact 
> thing - how to introduce my daughter and my dog, and how to deal with 
> potential issues before they happened.
>
> What she told me, is that the biggest problems occur when people get all 
> freaked out about the dog having access to the new baby. They banish the 
> dog to another part of the house, scold the dog for showing interest in 
> the baby, and before they know it, they have a very jealous, 
> displaced-feeling dog. Obviously dogs react differently in such a case - 
> perhaps acting up in the house, perhaps refusing to work, perhaps acting 
> aggressively to the object (baby) that has displaced them from their pack.
>
> Based on her advice, we did the following...
>
> We left the door to what would be Elise's room open so the dogs could 
> wander in whenever they wanted. They were allowed to sniff the crib, 
> carseat, boxes of diapers - whatever we had in there at any given time.
>
> When I had Elise, I had my mom (who was staying with our dogs while I was 
> in the hospital) bring home a blanket I had wrapped her up in. She just 
> dropped it in the middle of the living room floor, and let the dogs sniff 
> at it whenever they wanted. That way, when we brought Elise home, they 
> already had her scent
>
> . The other thing we did, is introduced the dogs to her one at a time. 
> Jason held the baby on his lap, and I brought each dog over to them on 
> leash. The dogs were allowed to sniff her head, lick her hands, etc. Hands 
> can be washed down with baby wipes afterward, but that first chance at an 
> introduction cannot be re-done.
>
> In the early weeks home, we had a Moses basket for Elise. It's basically a 
> light-weight wicker basket that could be carried from room to room. This 
> allowed us to place her on the floor with walls around her. This way, the 
> dogs could look in at her, or even lay beside the bassinette, without any 
> fear of them accidentally smothering her or knocking it over. One area 
> where we needed to exercise some caution is when we put Elise on her play 
> gym. I didn't keep the dogs out of her room, but I supervised very closely 
> to make sure she didn't get squashed.
>
> Unfortunately, some of the dynamics between baby and dog can shift 
> dramatically once they become more mobile. One of our dogs is a little 
> Weiner Dog. He was great with Elise in the beginning, but as soon as she 
> was able to tug on him and chase him around the house, all of that 
> changed. He began to growl and snap at her, and as a result, he is now 
> living with a friend of our family who has no children. We could not risk 
> him biting her, no matter how remote that possibility might have been.
>
> Kaylor, my current guide (a Golden) is amazing with my daughter. He really 
> does have the patience of a saint where she is concerned. Having said 
> that, I have a real problem with parents who take the attitude that it's 
> "the dog's job to take whatever the kids dish out." That is a totally 
> irresponsible way to own a dog, and to parent, for that matter. Obviously, 
> I cannot prevent every instance of Elise being excessively rough with 
> Kaylor. However, I absolutely do not reinforce that behavior. The other 
> night, she walked over to him, and clobbered him over the head with one of 
> her large, plastic  toys. She immediately went to bed. She may not yet 
> understand the corelation, but she will, and the earlier we start teaching 
> her that it is inappropriate to hit the dog, or yank on his ears, the 
> better for everyone involved.
>
> In terms of maintaining a guide while caring for a young baby, I agree 
> with much of what Rebecca has said. I am fortunate, because my dog is 7, 
> and is nearing the end of his career. However, if he had been an extremely 
> new and young dog when I had Elise, I am pretty sure I would have sent him 
> back to the school to be reissued. I honestly don't have the time or 
> energy that he deserves. Luckally, he is a good "sometimes" worker, which 
> is the only reason why this has worked as long as it has.
>
> However, if you, as a brand new parent, can find time to do regular 
> obedience, groomings, workouts, etc. with your dog, you should write a 
> book, because many of us would pay to learn how you manage to do it. Many 
> of the complications come from logistics - carrying a baby, a diaper bag, 
> and a carseat in one hand, while working the dog with the other. Other 
> issues come from space constraints - fitting a dog, a baby, and all of 
> their respective gear into a tiny car or taxi.
> Some of it is a function of season. I'm not sure where you live, but I 
> live in Minnesota, and I absolutely am not going to stand at a bus stop 
> for 25 minutes with an infant when it's 4 degrees outside. All of these 
> factors can add up to less work for your dog, despite your best 
> intentions.
>
> And, when your baby is very small, and your bearly getting 3 hours of 
> sleep a day, the last thing you want to do when you finally get that baby 
> to close his eyes is brush your dog or take her for a walk. Then you start 
> getting into play dates at other people's houses. Those people may or may 
> not want your dog in their home, and there may or may not be children 
> present who are afraid of large dogs.
>
> I'm not trying to say that it is impossible to use a dog while parenting a 
> young baby, but I do think it is extremely challenging, and that it 
> requires a significant commitment on the part of the handler. I, for one, 
> do not plan to replace my current guide until my daughter is at least 3 or 
> 4. I just don't think I have enough time, work, attention, or energy 
> left-over at the end of a day of caring for Elise, running all the 
> errands, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, cooking the meals, etc. 
> Heck, I'm lucky if I get to check my email once a day :).
>
> Hope some of this novel helps.
>
> Dena
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>
>
>>I found working with a guide dog very difficult once I had my daughter.
>> It was fine before she could move, and then the older she got, the
>> harder it got. She and my dog were very close, too close in that she
>> would toss food on the floor, and my dog would eat it. Putting the dog
>> in a different room didn't work because she just wouldn't eat, the she
>> being my daughter. I found it very difficult to get both the baby and
>> dog ready and out the door in the morning, and myself too. It drove me
>> nuts adding the dog's needs into those of my daughter's. There were and
>> still are times when she only wanted Mommy, and so we'd be cuddling and
>> I'd think "the dog needs to do park time, when will we be done here".
>> The whole thing was stressful.
>> To complicate things, my husband worked the swing shift, so often, it
>> was myself, my daughter and the dog alone. This doesn't sound bad,
>> except that there are many activities with a baby you can't stop like
>> batheing, eating, diaper changing, stuff like that. And sometimes these
>> activities take longer then others, making the schedule hard to
>> maintain.
>> I would get real stressed when my daughter was not feeling well, and I
>> knew the dog needed to go out and work.
>> I'd also get stressed when my daughter needed to go to bed and I knew
>> the dog could use some extra work and I'd have to be home because there
>> is nothing worse then a tired toddler. My husband wasn't home so it's
>> not like I could leave my daughter home by herself while I took the dog
>> out for some extra work.
>> Also, I found that as my daughter got to walking, she likes to stop and
>> look at things and talk about them. This frustrated my dog, and I didn't
>> think it was fair to either hurry my daughter along, or make the dog
>> stop guiding so we could talk about a firetruck or an airplane flying
>> overhead or watch the big kids play ball.
>> I also found that I didn't want to spend time brushing and basically
>> bonding with my dog after putting my daughter to bed. My mindset was
>> "Well, I've been with the dog at work all day, I don't want to spend
>> time with you at night". Not fair, I know, but it was what it was.
>> Finally, we went through a period where my daughter had an ear infection
>> about once every two weeks. This earned her a set of ear tubes, but it
>> took awhile to get that sorted out. Adding a dog's medical needs as well
>> as my daughter's wore me out.
>> I decided to retire my dog, and am glad I did. I can focus my energy
>> more fully on the human members of my family.
>> I found that when my husband and I'd go out without our daughter, I
>> wouldn't enjoy working my dog because to me, the same skill set involved
>> in being  a parent is the same skill set involved with being a good dog
>> handler. This meant that I felt like I hadn't had any time with my
>> husband.
>> Also too, I've found that people are more willing to assist when I'm out
>> with my daughter. I can remember wanting a high chair at I think
>> McDonald's and when I asked for one, the lady behind the counter was
>> like "Won't the dog get that for you". Um, no, she wouldn't. Ditto when
>> I needed to find an appropriate changing facility, people just expected
>> the dog to know where that stuff was. I even had someone think my dog
>> was supposed to calm my daughter down when she was having a huge red
>> zone tantrum.
>> I have no idea how I'd wrestle a screaming biting toddler into her
>> carseat with a dog, you can't let go of the kid ina parking lot, and
>> letting go of the dog may or may not be a good idea depending on where
>> you are.
>> What Eva says about not leaving a dog and baby alone together is true,
>> but it is also very difficult to manage a dog and young kid together if
>> you are the only adult involved. At least, this is my experience.
>> UI'd be curious to know how and why others came to the conclution that
>> using a dog was something they wanted and/or needed to do.
>> I'll also say,t hat my husband isn't really a dog person. I knew this
>> when I married him.
>> I'll also add that what pet dogs and guide dogs don't equate asa pet dog
>> isn't responsible for your safety. If the pet eats too much of the wrong
>> food, and you have a backyard, you can just put the pet outside. Not
>> such a good idea with a guide dog, or so is my opinion
>> Michael, your experience may differ being that you're a dad. Also, know
>> that you can work your dog as normal and if you find it isn't fun or
>> worthwile anymore, you can always retire the dog. I did and while it was
>> not easy emotionally, it was also the right choice for myself and my
>> family at the time I made it.
>> My daughter and dog are still close. My parents have the dog, and last
>> time we visited, my mom wanted all the dogs to go outside. My daughter
>> said "Jersey doesn't want to go outside, Jersey wants to stay here." So
>> Jersey got to stay in the kitchen with the people.
>> And, she still hangs out by my daughter who still feeds her when we go
>> visit.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Eileen Levin
>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:36 PM
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>> Both my labradors were great with the kids. My first one didn't like to
>> play
>> with the kids but she was very tolerant any way. The dog I got when my
>> son
>> was two absolutely loves to play with the kids and gives my boys a run
>> for
>> their money wrestling with bones, playing fetch and so on.
>> Eileen
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Babcock, Michael A.
>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Subject: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>> guys;
>> I went to an ultra sound last week, oh and let me tell you, that, was,
>> an
>> experience. I was amazed.
>> Second of all, i'm doing shopping for christmas gifts for my friends and
>> family right now and it made me think, wow, next christmas, my kid will
>> be
>> about 8 months old, that's scary as hell.
>> (pardon the language)
>> I'm excited but very scared also. I'm curious however, do you guys any
>> of
>> you, have guide dogs, and how are your dogs around babies? I ask because
>> mine, sheffield, i think will be ok. My soon to be wife's aunt's kid who
>> was
>> like a year and a half would pole his tail, and smile. Sheffield laid
>> there,
>> and i think he didn't get tired of it, but at one point he reached up
>> and
>> licked JR. in the face, this scared JR. and he ran away, but what do you
>> guys think is the best way to introduce a guide dog to a baby? I know
>> this
>> isn't a guide dog list, but i thought that that is a relevant question.
>> I
>> fear sheffield will be very very protective.
>> thanks a lot
>> Mike
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