[blparent] it somces closer

Wed Dec 16 20:55:15 UTC 2009

I'm willing to bet that most of theese people who train guide dogs are 
sighted people and they don't have to do theese things.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dena Wainwright" <dena at envogueaccess.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer


>I have to agree about the schools' ability to help. I have been amazed at 
>the lack of insight my school has been able to provide regarding being a 
>dog user and being a parent of a young child. E.g., when I asked for tips 
>on traveling with a baby and a dog on an airplane, I was met with baffled 
>silence... It's as though no one has ever done these things before, and I 
>really feel that this is a short coming where the schools are concerned. I 
>also talked with them about the need to clarify things to their grads. 
>E.g., they will often deny a potential student who is either pregnant, or 
>who has a very young child. That makes sense to me now that I have a baby, 
>because I understand now how hard it would be to make a new match work, but 
>I think they really need to provide a detailed explaination of their 
>reasoning when this happens. For instance, brining up the challenge of 
>keeping a new dog on leash while carrying your four month old baby around. 
>Implementing a strict schedule for feeding, watering, and relieving when 
>you have a child with no schedule. Getting out to do regular workouts with 
>your dog when you are recovering from labor and delivery, etc., etc.
>
> Dena
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 7:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>
>
>> The schools can and do help, but don't equate helping with fixing the
>> problem/issues.
>> The school can't step in to give your kid a bath or supervise bath time
>> if it takes longer then normal. The school can't clean up vomit when
>> your kid throws up meaning that park time gets delayed. The school can't
>> watch your kid so you can get a couple extra hours of sleep, and can't
>> take the dog out if you've just settled your kid after a rough night and
>> all you want to do is crawl back into bed yourself.
>> The school can advise on overall procedure, but can't ensure that you
>> implement it or that you have the desire to implement it.
>> My dog was barely three when I had my daughter. She wanted and needed
>> and deserved more then I was able to give her.
>> Michael, you can certainly use a dog, but both you and your partner will
>> need to be committed to that being what you are going to do. If you
>> aren't, or she isn't, or circumstances happen beyond your control, then
>> that's fine too. Give it a try if you are so inclined, but don't forcea
>> fit either. You can always get another dog when your child is older/out
>> of the house.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:03 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>> Dena, you wrote a lot of what I was thinking but didn't take the time to
>> put
>> into words.  Thank you.  I love my guide dog, but she doesn't get nearly
>> as
>> much work as she used to when I was commuting, pre-baby, and taking a
>> lot of
>> buses and such.  Ballad is eight years old, so she's been okay with
>> slowing
>> down, but I won't get another guide when she retires.  At least not till
>>
>> Sarah is closer to school age.
>>
>> The other thing I want to reinforce, is that it takes time and patience
>> to
>> teach a toddler how to interact with a dog.  I'm always reinforcing "Pet
>>
>> Ballad nice" and "Be gentle" over and over again, and lately, I'm having
>> to
>> stop Sarah from taking Ballad's toys.
>>
>>
>> Good luck with anything you decide, and the best advice I can give is,
>> be in
>> touch with your school.  Guide dog handlers have become parents many
>> times
>> before, and the school should be able to help you with any issues that
>> come
>> up.
>>
>> Take care.
>>
>> Jo Elizabeth
>>
>> Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always
>> glorify
>> the hunters.--African Proverb
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Dena Wainwright" <dena at envogueaccess.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:18 PM
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>>> This is a very difficult issue, and there is no right or wrong answer.
>>>
>>> Mike, I'm not sure where your dog comes from, but before I had Elise I
>> had
>>> a trainer from GDB visit me to teach me the proper way to pull the
>>> stroller and work a dog. While she was here, I asked her about this
>> exact
>>> thing - how to introduce my daughter and my dog, and how to deal with
>>> potential issues before they happened.
>>>
>>> What she told me, is that the biggest problems occur when people get
>> all
>>> freaked out about the dog having access to the new baby. They banish
>> the
>>> dog to another part of the house, scold the dog for showing interest
>> in
>>> the baby, and before they know it, they have a very jealous,
>>> displaced-feeling dog. Obviously dogs react differently in such a case
>> -
>>> perhaps acting up in the house, perhaps refusing to work, perhaps
>> acting
>>> aggressively to the object (baby) that has displaced them from their
>> pack.
>>>
>>> Based on her advice, we did the following...
>>>
>>> We left the door to what would be Elise's room open so the dogs could
>>> wander in whenever they wanted. They were allowed to sniff the crib,
>>> carseat, boxes of diapers - whatever we had in there at any given
>> time.
>>>
>>> When I had Elise, I had my mom (who was staying with our dogs while I
>> was
>>> in the hospital) bring home a blanket I had wrapped her up in. She
>> just
>>> dropped it in the middle of the living room floor, and let the dogs
>> sniff
>>> at it whenever they wanted. That way, when we brought Elise home, they
>>
>>> already had her scent
>>>
>>> . The other thing we did, is introduced the dogs to her one at a time.
>>
>>> Jason held the baby on his lap, and I brought each dog over to them on
>>
>>> leash. The dogs were allowed to sniff her head, lick her hands, etc.
>> Hands
>>> can be washed down with baby wipes afterward, but that first chance at
>> an
>>> introduction cannot be re-done.
>>>
>>> In the early weeks home, we had a Moses basket for Elise. It's
>> basically a
>>> light-weight wicker basket that could be carried from room to room.
>> This
>>> allowed us to place her on the floor with walls around her. This way,
>> the
>>> dogs could look in at her, or even lay beside the bassinette, without
>> any
>>> fear of them accidentally smothering her or knocking it over. One area
>>
>>> where we needed to exercise some caution is when we put Elise on her
>> play
>>> gym. I didn't keep the dogs out of her room, but I supervised very
>> closely
>>> to make sure she didn't get squashed.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, some of the dynamics between baby and dog can shift
>>> dramatically once they become more mobile. One of our dogs is a little
>>
>>> Weiner Dog. He was great with Elise in the beginning, but as soon as
>> she
>>> was able to tug on him and chase him around the house, all of that
>>> changed. He began to growl and snap at her, and as a result, he is now
>>
>>> living with a friend of our family who has no children. We could not
>> risk
>>> him biting her, no matter how remote that possibility might have been.
>>>
>>> Kaylor, my current guide (a Golden) is amazing with my daughter. He
>> really
>>> does have the patience of a saint where she is concerned. Having said
>>> that, I have a real problem with parents who take the attitude that
>> it's
>>> "the dog's job to take whatever the kids dish out." That is a totally
>>> irresponsible way to own a dog, and to parent, for that matter.
>> Obviously,
>>> I cannot prevent every instance of Elise being excessively rough with
>>> Kaylor. However, I absolutely do not reinforce that behavior. The
>> other
>>> night, she walked over to him, and clobbered him over the head with
>> one of
>>> her large, plastic  toys. She immediately went to bed. She may not yet
>>
>>> understand the corelation, but she will, and the earlier we start
>> teaching
>>> her that it is inappropriate to hit the dog, or yank on his ears, the
>>> better for everyone involved.
>>>
>>> In terms of maintaining a guide while caring for a young baby, I agree
>>
>>> with much of what Rebecca has said. I am fortunate, because my dog is
>> 7,
>>> and is nearing the end of his career. However, if he had been an
>> extremely
>>> new and young dog when I had Elise, I am pretty sure I would have sent
>> him
>>> back to the school to be reissued. I honestly don't have the time or
>>> energy that he deserves. Luckally, he is a good "sometimes" worker,
>> which
>>> is the only reason why this has worked as long as it has.
>>>
>>> However, if you, as a brand new parent, can find time to do regular
>>> obedience, groomings, workouts, etc. with your dog, you should write a
>>
>>> book, because many of us would pay to learn how you manage to do it.
>> Many
>>> of the complications come from logistics - carrying a baby, a diaper
>> bag,
>>> and a carseat in one hand, while working the dog with the other. Other
>>
>>> issues come from space constraints - fitting a dog, a baby, and all of
>>
>>> their respective gear into a tiny car or taxi.
>>> Some of it is a function of season. I'm not sure where you live, but I
>>
>>> live in Minnesota, and I absolutely am not going to stand at a bus
>> stop
>>> for 25 minutes with an infant when it's 4 degrees outside. All of
>> these
>>> factors can add up to less work for your dog, despite your best
>>> intentions.
>>>
>>> And, when your baby is very small, and your bearly getting 3 hours of
>>> sleep a day, the last thing you want to do when you finally get that
>> baby
>>> to close his eyes is brush your dog or take her for a walk. Then you
>> start
>>> getting into play dates at other people's houses. Those people may or
>> may
>>> not want your dog in their home, and there may or may not be children
>>> present who are afraid of large dogs.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to say that it is impossible to use a dog while
>> parenting a
>>> young baby, but I do think it is extremely challenging, and that it
>>> requires a significant commitment on the part of the handler. I, for
>> one,
>>> do not plan to replace my current guide until my daughter is at least
>> 3 or
>>> 4. I just don't think I have enough time, work, attention, or energy
>>> left-over at the end of a day of caring for Elise, running all the
>>> errands, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, cooking the meals,
>> etc.
>>> Heck, I'm lucky if I get to check my email once a day :).
>>>
>>> Hope some of this novel helps.
>>>
>>> Dena
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>>
>>>>I found working with a guide dog very difficult once I had my
>> daughter.
>>>> It was fine before she could move, and then the older she got, the
>>>> harder it got. She and my dog were very close, too close in that she
>>>> would toss food on the floor, and my dog would eat it. Putting the
>> dog
>>>> in a different room didn't work because she just wouldn't eat, the
>> she
>>>> being my daughter. I found it very difficult to get both the baby and
>>>> dog ready and out the door in the morning, and myself too. It drove
>> me
>>>> nuts adding the dog's needs into those of my daughter's. There were
>> and
>>>> still are times when she only wanted Mommy, and so we'd be cuddling
>> and
>>>> I'd think "the dog needs to do park time, when will we be done here".
>>>> The whole thing was stressful.
>>>> To complicate things, my husband worked the swing shift, so often, it
>>>> was myself, my daughter and the dog alone. This doesn't sound bad,
>>>> except that there are many activities with a baby you can't stop like
>>>> batheing, eating, diaper changing, stuff like that. And sometimes
>> these
>>>> activities take longer then others, making the schedule hard to
>>>> maintain.
>>>> I would get real stressed when my daughter was not feeling well, and
>> I
>>>> knew the dog needed to go out and work.
>>>> I'd also get stressed when my daughter needed to go to bed and I knew
>>>> the dog could use some extra work and I'd have to be home because
>> there
>>>> is nothing worse then a tired toddler. My husband wasn't home so it's
>>>> not like I could leave my daughter home by herself while I took the
>> dog
>>>> out for some extra work.
>>>> Also, I found that as my daughter got to walking, she likes to stop
>> and
>>>> look at things and talk about them. This frustrated my dog, and I
>> didn't
>>>> think it was fair to either hurry my daughter along, or make the dog
>>>> stop guiding so we could talk about a firetruck or an airplane flying
>>>> overhead or watch the big kids play ball.
>>>> I also found that I didn't want to spend time brushing and basically
>>>> bonding with my dog after putting my daughter to bed. My mindset was
>>>> "Well, I've been with the dog at work all day, I don't want to spend
>>>> time with you at night". Not fair, I know, but it was what it was.
>>>> Finally, we went through a period where my daughter had an ear
>> infection
>>>> about once every two weeks. This earned her a set of ear tubes, but
>> it
>>>> took awhile to get that sorted out. Adding a dog's medical needs as
>> well
>>>> as my daughter's wore me out.
>>>> I decided to retire my dog, and am glad I did. I can focus my energy
>>>> more fully on the human members of my family.
>>>> I found that when my husband and I'd go out without our daughter, I
>>>> wouldn't enjoy working my dog because to me, the same skill set
>> involved
>>>> in being  a parent is the same skill set involved with being a good
>> dog
>>>> handler. This meant that I felt like I hadn't had any time with my
>>>> husband.
>>>> Also too, I've found that people are more willing to assist when I'm
>> out
>>>> with my daughter. I can remember wanting a high chair at I think
>>>> McDonald's and when I asked for one, the lady behind the counter was
>>>> like "Won't the dog get that for you". Um, no, she wouldn't. Ditto
>> when
>>>> I needed to find an appropriate changing facility, people just
>> expected
>>>> the dog to know where that stuff was. I even had someone think my dog
>>>> was supposed to calm my daughter down when she was having a huge red
>>>> zone tantrum.
>>>> I have no idea how I'd wrestle a screaming biting toddler into her
>>>> carseat with a dog, you can't let go of the kid ina parking lot, and
>>>> letting go of the dog may or may not be a good idea depending on
>> where
>>>> you are.
>>>> What Eva says about not leaving a dog and baby alone together is
>> true,
>>>> but it is also very difficult to manage a dog and young kid together
>> if
>>>> you are the only adult involved. At least, this is my experience.
>>>> UI'd be curious to know how and why others came to the conclution
>> that
>>>> using a dog was something they wanted and/or needed to do.
>>>> I'll also say,t hat my husband isn't really a dog person. I knew this
>>>> when I married him.
>>>> I'll also add that what pet dogs and guide dogs don't equate asa pet
>> dog
>>>> isn't responsible for your safety. If the pet eats too much of the
>> wrong
>>>> food, and you have a backyard, you can just put the pet outside. Not
>>>> such a good idea with a guide dog, or so is my opinion
>>>> Michael, your experience may differ being that you're a dad. Also,
>> know
>>>> that you can work your dog as normal and if you find it isn't fun or
>>>> worthwile anymore, you can always retire the dog. I did and while it
>> was
>>>> not easy emotionally, it was also the right choice for myself and my
>>>> family at the time I made it.
>>>> My daughter and dog are still close. My parents have the dog, and
>> last
>>>> time we visited, my mom wanted all the dogs to go outside. My
>> daughter
>>>> said "Jersey doesn't want to go outside, Jersey wants to stay here."
>> So
>>>> Jersey got to stay in the kitchen with the people.
>>>> And, she still hangs out by my daughter who still feeds her when we
>> go
>>>> visit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Eileen Levin
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:36 PM
>>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>>
>>>> Both my labradors were great with the kids. My first one didn't like
>> to
>>>> play
>>>> with the kids but she was very tolerant any way. The dog I got when
>> my
>>>> son
>>>> was two absolutely loves to play with the kids and gives my boys a
>> run
>>>> for
>>>> their money wrestling with bones, playing fetch and so on.
>>>> Eileen
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Babcock, Michael A.
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>>
>>>> guys;
>>>> I went to an ultra sound last week, oh and let me tell you, that,
>> was,
>>>> an
>>>> experience. I was amazed.
>>>> Second of all, i'm doing shopping for christmas gifts for my friends
>> and
>>>> family right now and it made me think, wow, next christmas, my kid
>> will
>>>> be
>>>> about 8 months old, that's scary as hell.
>>>> (pardon the language)
>>>> I'm excited but very scared also. I'm curious however, do you guys
>> any
>>>> of
>>>> you, have guide dogs, and how are your dogs around babies? I ask
>> because
>>>> mine, sheffield, i think will be ok. My soon to be wife's aunt's kid
>> who
>>>> was
>>>> like a year and a half would pole his tail, and smile. Sheffield laid
>>>> there,
>>>> and i think he didn't get tired of it, but at one point he reached up
>>>> and
>>>> licked JR. in the face, this scared JR. and he ran away, but what do
>> you
>>>> guys think is the best way to introduce a guide dog to a baby? I know
>>>> this
>>>> isn't a guide dog list, but i thought that that is a relevant
>> question.
>>>> I
>>>> fear sheffield will be very very protective.
>>>> thanks a lot
>>>> Mike
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