[blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying

Mon Mar 23 15:59:06 UTC 2015

Jo Elizabeth, I love this email! What great ideas!

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
Elizabeth Pinto via blparent
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:13 PM
To: Nate Trela; Blind Parents Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying

I'm going to be as diplomatic about this as I can, but let me start out by
saying that we're all on the same team here.  We're blind parents trying to
raise our kids the best we know how, so please don't take anything I say as
adversarial because I'm not trying to pick on you.  I'm just trying to help
you look at all of this in a different way you might not have thought of
yet.  It's true that without your vision, you are in some ways at a
disadvantage because you will have to rely on your other senses.  But you
still have your ability to reason and think, and you still have your ability
to appeal to your daughter's logic and her conscience.  That's what really
matters here.  Skip the lower level "I'm the dad and you're busted" stuff.

I'm not sure I would have convicted my daughter of lying, so to speak, based
on the possible smell of candy on her breath, and the possible candy bag out
of position on your desk, especially when you weren't sure of either, and
one accusation was made by a girlfriend who presumably doesn't have
authority over the child.  That can be touchy a year after a divorce, but
that's a whole different can of worms.  If the main thing is blocking her
access to treats, don't leave the candy on your desk.  Don't have junk in
the house.  She can't sneak what she can't find.

Especially if the girl was very insistant that she didn't take the candy, to
the point of tears, I would personally have let the argument drop and chosen
another angle.  No one wins a tug-of-war like that; it's unwinnable.  My
daughter is seven, and she has tried her hand at stretching the truth and
sneaking candy a few times.  Even when I've definitely smelled candy on her
breath and heard the rustling of wrappers in the Halloween bucket, I haven't
come out and made a direct accusation because I've wanted to see if I could
get her to confess on her own.  I've talked to her about how we are a team
and we need to work together, how I need to believe what she tells me and
trust that what she says is always true.  If I can't trust that what she
says is true, then we can't go places together because we don't work well as
a team.  Natural consequences.  If I can't trust her to tell the truth, then
I can't send her to play with her friends because she might make up stories
at their houses.  One of her friends has a mom who is very strict about
that, and getting sent home from there a few times did a lot to further the
cause of truth-telling.  The flip side of that is, if she tells me the
truth, we can go places together, and she can go play with her friends. 
She's gotten to where she rats herself out if she slips up and sneaks candy
or does something else she shouldn't, even when I wouldn't know it.  We're
building a relationship now that I hope will carry us through the difficult
years ahead, a trusting kind of relationship where it won't matter if I
can't literally keep an eye on her every minute.

So anyway, find ways to build trust with your daughter.  Instead of
concentrating on catching her red-handed, focus on opportunities to
strengthen your relationship with her.  Are there activities or hobbies you
can do together?  Are there chores she does, and do you let her know you
appreciate it when she does them well and on time?  Do you take an active
interest in her school projects, dance activities, and whatever else she has
going on?  How often do you have meaningful conversations with her?  Have
you talked about what trust means to both of you, and listened also?  I'm
not saying you haven't done these things, but it might be time for a
revisit.  Sometimes as parents, and especially blind parents, I think we get
so caught up in thinking we have to be right on the ball, nipping this or
that in the bud, and we get so busy trying to be perfect, we forget the big
picture.  In the end, whether your kid sneaked an Easter candy or not isn't
going to matter that much one way or another.  What will matter is that she
grew up to be a good, ethical, honest woman who had a strong, open
relationship with a dad who cared about her very much.

Jo Elizabeth

Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may
kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at
evening.--Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nate Trela via blparent
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 10:49 PM
To: blparent at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying

Short ime lurker, first-time poster ...

I am a blind dad of two sighted kids (12 year old daughter, 8 year old son),
blind for three years and divorced about a year with 50-50 custody. My
12-year-old daughter lately has had a pattern of highly improbable, but
slightly possible, explanations for things. Or to be more blunt, I am pretty
sure she is lying about things she is doing but haven't felt 100% sure - or
certain enough to metaphorically throw the book at her.

The problems revolve around sweets - she is almost certainly sneaking
treats, probably four suspicious events in the last six months. For example,
I found an empty  box of Girl Scout cookies in her room when I brought
something up there a few weeks ago; when I confronted her about it, she said
a lot of the girls at the performing arts school she is going to had been
eating such cookies and she thought the empty box must have fallen into her
bag because of the way they store their bags outside of their dance studio.
(I have seen the way it is set up and she has ended up with other kids'
stuff in her bag before, but the box was slightly under her bed, like she
shoved it under to hide it.) My instincts were going off, but it was
plausible. I did not notice crumbs in her room or cookied breath. I was
pretty suspicious but not sure I could "convict."

Then tonight after my daughter came downstairs, my girlfriend let me know
she smelled candy on her breath. I thought I might have noticed it too; it
was the same kind of smell from a bag of Easter candy I had left on my desk.
I came upstairs and thought the bag was not how I left it. I confronted my
daughter, told her what I smelled and that the bag was not how I left it on
my desk, told her I knew she was sneaking candy and that I didn't believe
her when she insisted she did not take it.

I have stressed that lying is never acceptable in my house. I usually know
her tells - and including that point where I feel pretty confident she is
not lying after heavy questioning. To date, that threshold has been when she
cried, but she cried tonight, insisting she did not take the candy. I told
her I did not believe her, that the cover up was far worse than the crime,
and sent her to bed.

So I am at a loss ... my girlfriend's instincts are impeccable and her
senses (particularly of smell) are far stronger than mine. I think it is
likely my daughter took the candy, but either she has gotten far better at
lying to me or she is telling the truth.

So what is the threshold you would use to "convict" your kid of lying.
I tried to think how this would have played out when I could see.
Because of the layout of our house, I would not have seen her go for the
candy and probably would not have noticed it on her breath. But would I have
accused her so forcefully - would I have felt as certain when I could see
that she was lying if I didn't actually see what happen. I doubt I could
have seen "candy residue" in her mouth or anything like that.

On one hand, I know I have to trust my other senses more than I did when I
was sighted. My son, when I first lost my vision, tried everything he could
to test the boundaries and figure out what he could get away with. (Short
answer - a lot more than now.) Because my girlfriend has been blind all her
life and used alternative techniques forever, she has much more certainty
about what she sees, hears, smells, etc.  I still second guess myself a lot
and my daughter has a reservoir of trust built up over the years. I don't
think she is trying to test what she can get away with a blind parent - it
is just that she is a tween. There will be testing of boundaries. There will
be lying, just like she probably does with her sighted mother.

So any feedback would be appreciated as I try to figure out how to navigate
this mess. Any suggestions for catching her red handed? How do you deal with
suspected lying from your kids?  How would you prove this one to yourself?

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