[blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying

[Sheila Leigland]

jo elizabeth great post  and I concur completely.

On 3/23/2015 12:12 AM, Jo Elizabeth Pinto via blparent wrote:
> I'm going to be as diplomatic about this as I can, but let me start 
> out by saying that we're all on the same team here. We're blind 
> parents trying to raise our kids the best we know how, so please don't 
> take anything I say as adversarial because I'm not trying to pick on 
> you.  I'm just trying to help you look at all of this in a different 
> way you might not have thought of yet.  It's true that without your 
> vision, you are in some ways at a disadvantage because you will have 
> to rely on your other senses. But you still have your ability to 
> reason and think, and you still have your ability to appeal to your 
> daughter's logic and her conscience.  That's what really matters 
> here.  Skip the lower level "I'm the dad and you're busted" stuff.
>
> I'm not sure I would have convicted my daughter of lying, so to speak, 
> based on the possible smell of candy on her breath, and the possible 
> candy bag out of position on your desk, especially when you weren't 
> sure of either, and one accusation was made by a girlfriend who 
> presumably doesn't have authority over the child. That can be touchy a 
> year after a divorce, but that's a whole different can of worms.  If 
> the main thing is blocking her access to treats, don't leave the candy 
> on your desk.  Don't have junk in the house.  She can't sneak what she 
> can't find.
>
> Especially if the girl was very insistant that she didn't take the 
> candy, to the point of tears, I would personally have let the argument 
> drop and chosen another angle.  No one wins a tug-of-war like that; 
> it's unwinnable.  My daughter is seven, and she has tried her hand at 
> stretching the truth and sneaking candy a few times.  Even when I've 
> definitely smelled candy on her breath and heard the rustling of 
> wrappers in the Halloween bucket, I haven't come out and made a direct 
> accusation because I've wanted to see if I could get her to confess on 
> her own.  I've talked to her about how we are a team and we need to 
> work together, how I need to believe what she tells me and trust that 
> what she says is always true.  If I can't trust that what she says is 
> true, then we can't go places together because we don't work well as a 
> team. Natural consequences.  If I can't trust her to tell the truth, 
> then I can't send her to play with her friends because she might make 
> up stories at their houses.  One of her friends has a mom who is very 
> strict about that, and getting sent home from there a few times did a 
> lot to further the cause of truth-telling.  The flip side of that is, 
> if she tells me the truth, we can go places together, and she can go 
> play with her friends. She's gotten to where she rats herself out if 
> she slips up and sneaks candy or does something else she shouldn't, 
> even when I wouldn't know it. We're building a relationship now that I 
> hope will carry us through the difficult years ahead, a trusting kind 
> of relationship where it won't matter if I can't literally keep an eye 
> on her every minute.
>
> So anyway, find ways to build trust with your daughter.  Instead of 
> concentrating on catching her red-handed, focus on opportunities to 
> strengthen your relationship with her.  Are there activities or 
> hobbies you can do together?  Are there chores she does, and do you 
> let her know you appreciate it when she does them well and on time?  
> Do you take an active interest in her school projects, dance 
> activities, and whatever else she has going on? How often do you have 
> meaningful conversations with her?  Have you talked about what trust 
> means to both of you, and listened also? I'm not saying you haven't 
> done these things, but it might be time for a revisit.  Sometimes as 
> parents, and especially blind parents, I think we get so caught up in 
> thinking we have to be right on the ball, nipping this or that in the 
> bud, and we get so busy trying to be perfect, we forget the big 
> picture.  In the end, whether your kid sneaked an Easter candy or not 
> isn't going to matter that much one way or another.  What will matter 
> is that she grew up to be a good, ethical, honest woman who had a 
> strong, open relationship with a dad who cared about her very much.
>
> Jo Elizabeth
>
> Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you 
> may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and 
> full at evening.--Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
> -----Original Message----- From: Nate Trela via blparent
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 10:49 PM
> To: blparent at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying
>
> Short ime lurker, first-time poster ...
>
> I am a blind dad of two sighted kids (12 year old daughter, 8 year old
> son), blind for three years and divorced about a year with 50-50
> custody. My 12-year-old daughter lately has had a pattern of highly
> improbable, but slightly possible, explanations for things. Or to be
> more blunt, I am pretty sure she is lying about things she is doing
> but haven't felt 100% sure - or certain enough to metaphorically throw
> the book at her.
>
> The problems revolve around sweets - she is almost certainly sneaking
> treats, probably four suspicious events in the last six months. For
> example, I found an empty  box of Girl Scout cookies in her room when
> I brought something up there a few weeks ago; when I confronted her
> about it, she said a lot of the girls at the performing arts school
> she is going to had been eating such cookies and she thought the empty
> box must have fallen into her bag because of the way they store their
> bags outside of their dance studio. (I have seen the way it is set up
> and she has ended up with other kids' stuff in her bag before, but the
> box was slightly under her bed, like she shoved it under to hide it.)
> My instincts were going off, but it was plausible. I did not notice
> crumbs in her room or cookied breath. I was pretty suspicious but not
> sure I could "convict."
>
> Then tonight after my daughter came downstairs, my girlfriend let me
> know she smelled candy on her breath. I thought I might have noticed
> it too; it was the same kind of smell from a bag of Easter candy I had
> left on my desk. I came upstairs and thought the bag was not how I
> left it. I confronted my daughter, told her what I smelled and that
> the bag was not how I left it on my desk, told her I knew she was
> sneaking candy and that I didn't believe her when she insisted she did
> not take it.
>
> I have stressed that lying is never acceptable in my house. I usually
> know her tells - and including that point where I feel pretty
> confident she is not lying after heavy questioning. To date, that
> threshold has been when she cried, but she cried tonight, insisting
> she did not take the candy. I told her I did not believe her, that the
> cover up was far worse than the crime, and sent her to bed.
>
> So I am at a loss ... my girlfriend's instincts are impeccable and her
> senses (particularly of smell) are far stronger than mine. I think it
> is likely my daughter took the candy, but either she has gotten far
> better at lying to me or she is telling the truth.
>
> So what is the threshold you would use to "convict" your kid of lying.
> I tried to think how this would have played out when I could see.
> Because of the layout of our house, I would not have seen her go for
> the candy and probably would not have noticed it on her breath. But
> would I have accused her so forcefully - would I have felt as certain
> when I could see that she was lying if I didn't actually see what
> happen. I doubt I could have seen "candy residue" in her mouth or
> anything like that.
>
> On one hand, I know I have to trust my other senses more than I did
> when I was sighted. My son, when I first lost my vision, tried
> everything he could to test the boundaries and figure out what he
> could get away with. (Short answer - a lot more than now.) Because my
> girlfriend has been blind all her life and used alternative techniques
> forever, she has much more certainty about what she sees, hears,
> smells, etc.  I still second guess myself a lot and my daughter has a
> reservoir of trust built up over the years. I don't think she is
> trying to test what she can get away with a blind parent - it is just
> that she is a tween. There will be testing of boundaries. There will
> be lying, just like she probably does with her sighted mother.
>
> So any feedback would be appreciated as I try to figure out how to
> navigate this mess. Any suggestions for catching her red handed? How
> do you deal with suspected lying from your kids?  How would you prove
> this one to yourself?
>
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