[blparent] Here comes Mama Bear! On the Loose!!!

[Bernadette Jacobs]

Firstly, Joe, I want to tell you how very sorry I am that this happened to you and your daughter!! Like others here have said, this writer as an absolute bully and out to be put away herself. Nobody has any right to treat your daughter like that!! You bet!! Mama bear is on the loose!! As for the, and I quote, the Almighty vision!" They Natalie think that they have the right to tell us how to do something they think they have the right to talk to us anyway they want to; grab us; touchups; push us, move us around, that's bologna sausage!! They don't have the right to do any of that! And I tell them so. I don't hold back. All my life, people have tried to tell me to use the velvet glove! Guess what folks, they don't even make velvet anymore. Secondly, only rich people have velvet! I don't. So when's that horseradish.

I have discovered over the years, that the time and I quote blindness him and of quote is often times misused. My feeling is that many of these behaviors such as rocking, poking the eyes, shaking head from side to side rolling from side to side and a whole list of others are merely a lack of stimulus. Particularly in children, they are merely looking to stimulate themselves. We, as adults, are stimulated by conversation and/or any other thing around us. Children, simply because they are children, I'm not capable of stimulating them selves.  So, because they haven't learned how to do this, they find any way they can, simply because stimulus is truly a need for all of us. We are all stimulated by things. It's natural. It's human. Animals to the very same thing. So, of course there's no reason why we can't. We simply have to learn appropriate behaviors and teachour children to do the same.

I, myself, the last couple of years have made a very interesting observation. Being a blind parent myself, with my husband being cited, I am actually grateful that he sees a lot that I don't. I'm just discovering how much. We have both agreed, however, that when our daughter is doing something on acceptable, we will wait until we are on our way home in the van, or, simply will wait until we are in the house to speak with her. We do not embarrass her in front of other people, in a restaurant, anywhere. Unless it's something that needs immediate or direct attention. I have been known to take our daughter into a bathroom or a quiet place to speak with her about such things.

Asked for our son, he has many different issues. He is not only blind, but autistic and substantially delayed. There again, all of these things are stimulus things. I haven't seen anyone hold back yet regarding our David issues. People are very hurtful when it comes to David. We have actually been told to, "leave the family dog at home. And of cooked if that isn't hurtful, I don't know what it is. So, now you can see why the mama bear is on the loose!! Nobody is supposed to hurt our babies. It is natural and animalistic, I might add to protect our babies. So, Joe, go get them!! Ask for Michelle, Mike, and the rest of you, I want to thank you for rallying around Joe and supporting her!! After all, that's what we do. We rally and support each other. And if we have something else to say, we say yet and we're done with it. That's what a family is supposed to do. I don't know how to thank you guys. You're great!! Asked for the next time you meet with those people again this week, Joe, go for it! Tell it like it is! Don't hold back! Because you know what honey? I wish I could be there. I'd love to be that fly on the wall and give 'em Hell!!!  Joe, give your darling daughter a hug for me. I wish I could hug you both. There's nothing worse than when you hurt for your babies. When ignorant people like this hurt you, that's one thing. But, touch our babies??? Oh!!! Over our dead bodies!! Far as I'm concerned, when somebody hurts my babies, they've given up all their rights!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2016, at 8:00 AM, blparent-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
> 
> Send BlParent mailing list submissions to
>    blparent at nfbnet.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    blparent-request at nfbnet.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    blparent-owner at nfbnet.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of BlParent digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Sighted Interference (Star Gazer)
>   2. Re: Sighted Interference (Star Gazer)
>   3. Re: Manners (rbacchus228 at gmail.com)
>   4. Re: Sighted Interference (Jo Elizabeth Pinto)
>   5. Re: Sighted Interference (Michelle Creedy )
>   6. Re: Sighted Interference (Michelle Creedy )
>   7. Re: Sighted Interference (Michelle Creedy )
>   8. Re: Manners (Judy Jones)
>   9. Re: Sighted Interference (Jody Ianuzzi)
>  10. Re: Sighted Interference (Jody Ianuzzi)
>  11. Re: Sighted Interference (Jo Elizabeth Pinto)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:14:48 -0400
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <103401d1d788$5f843900$1e8cab00$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
>                Sounds like, and you may not want to hear
> it, that your mom had the right concept but a very poor implementation. The
> other take is that she wanted to beat up on you and used any way she could
> to "get away" with it. 
> As for your writer group, she sounds like a bully. I'd call her out on it,
> and I'd talk with your daughter about bullies, how they aren't confined to
> the schoolyard. 
> Finally, I'd empower her and yourself if you haven't already to speak up.
> I've never understood or appreciated the "respect your elders". All people
> get respect just as all people are can loose respect and age has nothing to
> do with it. We all decide who is worthy of our respect based on our
> experiencewith them. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 8:33 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I am quite aware of what my parents used to call "blindisms" or "looking
> blind."  They, especially my mother, wanted me to appear as sighted as
> possible in every way.  They couldn't keep me from being blind, much to
> their despair, but they sure did everything they could to keep me from
> looking blind.  I never picked up the habit of rocking because if I started
> doing it, I was likely to get slapped for it.  I learned the proper way to
> hold a spoon because if my mom caught me clutching one in my fist, she'd
> reach over and smack my knuckles with the handle of her knife or fork.  And
> if it took me too many times to get the message, she was known to turn the
> utensil around and make use of the business end.  I put in many a mile
> around the circle of our suburban home, from the living room, through the
> kitchen, down the hallway and back again, practicing a walk with a smooth,
> loose gait and no foot shuffling.  There would be no "blindisms" when I
> ventured out in public with my perfectionist family, by God.  So it wasn't
> easy for me to hear my OCD friend harp on my daughter--my sighted daughter,
> no less, especially because her premise was that the problem stemmed from
> the fact that I couldn't see.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sharon Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 11:19 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:17:18 -0400
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <103f01d1d788$b92419d0$2b6c4d70$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
>                Probably
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 1:19 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sharon Howerton <shrnhow at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.  
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth 
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:32:53 -0400
> From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Manners
> Message-ID: <98AB0A8A-66B1-4AEB-8F6A-629130119012 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> When we go out to eat I spread a nothing on my lap so I don't make a loss with the food it works all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 2:47 AM, Judy Jones via BlParent <blparent at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Another thing I have done. When out at a restaurant, for instance, where something like BBQ or fried chicken is involved, especially a nice restaurant, I have been known to ask how the people around me are handling those dishes. In places where I may have opted for a fork and knife, I found that other were actually eating with there fingers. Never hurts to ask.
>> 
>> Judy
>> 
>> Judy
>> Sent From The U2 Mini 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:40:58 -0600
> From: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
> To: "Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <BLU172-DS4A18536E8213A6A244FD9AC3A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> I believe my mom may have had some good intentions, combined with a healthy 
> dose of poor parenting from her own childhood.  In any case, though her 
> methods left a lot to be desired, she made me into a very determined person 
> and a pretty competent member of sighted society.  I know how to eat without 
> making a mess.  I know how to move about without being too clumsy, most 
> times, and how to handle myself in a conversation without interrupting or 
> monopolizing, touching people, or taking up other annoying habits that 
> unfortunately, some blind people haven't been taught not to do.  I know very 
> well that the world owes me nothing and that if I want something, I better 
> get my butt out there and work for it.  I know that life isn't fair and I 
> don't expect it to be.  I know that if I want something bad enough, the 
> chasm between where I am now and where what I want is doesn't matter much. 
> And I know that beauty can be found in some very dark places.  My mom taught 
> me all of that--maybe on purpose and maybe in spite of herself.  That I 
> don't know, and it doesn't matter.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Star Gazer via BlParent
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:14 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Star Gazer
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Sounds like, and you may not want to hear
> it, that your mom had the right concept but a very poor implementation. The
> other take is that she wanted to beat up on you and used any way she could
> to "get away" with it.
> As for your writer group, she sounds like a bully. I'd call her out on it,
> and I'd talk with your daughter about bullies, how they aren't confined to
> the schoolyard.
> Finally, I'd empower her and yourself if you haven't already to speak up.
> I've never understood or appreciated the "respect your elders". All people
> get respect just as all people are can loose respect and age has nothing to
> do with it. We all decide who is worthy of our respect based on our
> experiencewith them.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 8:33 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I am quite aware of what my parents used to call "blindisms" or "looking
> blind."  They, especially my mother, wanted me to appear as sighted as
> possible in every way.  They couldn't keep me from being blind, much to
> their despair, but they sure did everything they could to keep me from
> looking blind.  I never picked up the habit of rocking because if I started
> doing it, I was likely to get slapped for it.  I learned the proper way to
> hold a spoon because if my mom caught me clutching one in my fist, she'd
> reach over and smack my knuckles with the handle of her knife or fork.  And
> if it took me too many times to get the message, she was known to turn the
> utensil around and make use of the business end.  I put in many a mile
> around the circle of our suburban home, from the living room, through the
> kitchen, down the hallway and back again, practicing a walk with a smooth,
> loose gait and no foot shuffling.  There would be no "blindisms" when I
> ventured out in public with my perfectionist family, by God.  So it wasn't
> easy for me to hear my OCD friend harp on my daughter--my sighted daughter,
> no less, especially because her premise was that the problem stemmed from
> the fact that I couldn't see.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sharon Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 11:19 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:50:00 -0700
> From: "Michelle Creedy " <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <002f01d1d79e$0dfb9090$29f2b1b0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Awesome and very well said Jo Elizabeth! You and I are cut of much the same
> fabric in that way.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:41 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I believe my mom may have had some good intentions, combined with a healthy
> dose of poor parenting from her own childhood.  In any case, though her
> methods left a lot to be desired, she made me into a very determined person
> and a pretty competent member of sighted society.  I know how to eat without
> making a mess.  I know how to move about without being too clumsy, most
> times, and how to handle myself in a conversation without interrupting or
> monopolizing, touching people, or taking up other annoying habits that
> unfortunately, some blind people haven't been taught not to do.  I know very
> well that the world owes me nothing and that if I want something, I better
> get my butt out there and work for it.  I know that life isn't fair and I
> don't expect it to be.  I know that if I want something bad enough, the
> chasm between where I am now and where what I want is doesn't matter much. 
> And I know that beauty can be found in some very dark places.  My mom taught
> me all of that--maybe on purpose and maybe in spite of herself.  That I
> don't know, and it doesn't matter.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Star Gazer via BlParent
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:14 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Star Gazer
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Sounds like, and you may not want to hear
> it, that your mom had the right concept but a very poor implementation. The
> other take is that she wanted to beat up on you and used any way she could
> to "get away" with it.
> As for your writer group, she sounds like a bully. I'd call her out on it,
> and I'd talk with your daughter about bullies, how they aren't confined to
> the schoolyard.
> Finally, I'd empower her and yourself if you haven't already to speak up.
> I've never understood or appreciated the "respect your elders". All people
> get respect just as all people are can loose respect and age has nothing to
> do with it. We all decide who is worthy of our respect based on our
> experiencewith them.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 8:33 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I am quite aware of what my parents used to call "blindisms" or "looking
> blind."  They, especially my mother, wanted me to appear as sighted as
> possible in every way.  They couldn't keep me from being blind, much to
> their despair, but they sure did everything they could to keep me from
> looking blind.  I never picked up the habit of rocking because if I started
> doing it, I was likely to get slapped for it.  I learned the proper way to
> hold a spoon because if my mom caught me clutching one in my fist, she'd
> reach over and smack my knuckles with the handle of her knife or fork.  And
> if it took me too many times to get the message, she was known to turn the
> utensil around and make use of the business end.  I put in many a mile
> around the circle of our suburban home, from the living room, through the
> kitchen, down the hallway and back again, practicing a walk with a smooth,
> loose gait and no foot shuffling.  There would be no "blindisms" when I
> ventured out in public with my perfectionist family, by God.  So it wasn't
> easy for me to hear my OCD friend harp on my daughter--my sighted daughter,
> no less, especially because her premise was that the problem stemmed from
> the fact that I couldn't see.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sharon Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 11:19 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:02:03 -0700
> From: "Michelle Creedy " <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <003001d1d79f$bcd4a740$367df5c0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Wow, I love the sound of the house mother!
> 
> You know, I think the antidote to rocking is physical activity but also,
> your ideas about how your mother told you it was ok to rock in the rocking
> chair is a wonderful way to deal with it. 
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Meuse
> via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 9:46 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Wendy Meuse
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi all:  I have heard people mention blindisms.  I had a very good
> girlfriend who unfortunately rocked and rocked and rocked on whatever she
> happened to be sitting on.  I remember I did somewhat when I was little, but
> my mom said that people did not like that. 
> She got me a rocking chair though and said it was ok to rock in the rocking
> chair.  I still do rock if I happen to be sitting in a rocking chair and
> listening to some good music.  When my friend was visiting with me and she
> would madly start rocking, I didn't say anything, I just gently put my hand
> on her shoulder and she would stop.  Noone was able to brake the habit
> though.  I understand Ray Charles really rocked a lot.  It is common
> unfortunately.  u can't stop blindisms if you are not aware that you are
> doing something like that.  At the school for the blind I went too, we had a
> very gentle house mother who would take us aside and talk to us.  She didn't
> make us feel two inches high either.  She did so many fun things with us.  I
> remember when the Beatles first came out and people were dancing with the
> show American bandstand or Dance Party, she would come to us who wanted to
> know the dance moves and she would let us get down on our knees and feel
> what her feet were doing and then her hands and arms.  She was a real
> scream.  We just loved her.  I don't know what made this pop into my head,
> but I have a question for some of you.  My daughter has children of her own
> now, but I had ae real problem when Grace was little.I got ssome pretty bad
> complaints from the teachers about Grace giving them dirty faces when they
> asked her to do something she did not want to do.  she would never talk
> back, but boy.  If looks could kill. 
> I didn't really know what to do about it and I am sure I missed lots of
> dirty looks.  Finally I ended up telling her, And by the way.  If you are
> giving me any of your dirty looks, you might as well wipe them off of your
> face right now.  I'll find out about them one way or another.  She sure did
> have a temper on her.  Sometimes being a single parent is hard.  all that
> being said, she was usually a pretty good kid.  I am curious to know if any
> of you had this problem, and what did you do about it?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sharon Howerton via BlParent" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Sharon Howerton" <shrnhow at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> 
> I don't know her background, Michelle, so couldn't really respond to that.
> She is around my age so mid-60's and if you live your life in a blind world
> which I think she may have done--school for the blind, blind friends,
> etc-who'd know. And over the many years I've worked in the blindness field,
> these things were called "blindisms" and I don't know if sighted people
> messed with that. I'd want to know if I was doing something strange and am
> sure my mom in particular would have made no bones about telling me. So the
> same friend who commented on this behavior has said to me, "You are the most
> normal blind person I know." So there you are, but we don't know how we are
> perceived by others all the time anyway.
> 
> Good to see your message, Michelle.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 6:46 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Sharon
> 
> Most likely, it would have held her back somewhat to rock because it really
> does bother sighted people to look at that. I'm curious as to why a close
> friend or family member didn't talk to her about it gently?
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:19 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/w_meuse%40telus.net 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:09:13 -0700
> From: "Michelle Creedy " <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <003b01d1d7a0$bd3f0c60$37bd2520$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi Sharon, wow, very interesting. I basically surround myself with people
> who will tell me these things which is nice. I do, however, make rules for
> how I'm to be told. 
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:34 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I don't know her background, Michelle, so couldn't really respond to that.
> She is around my age so mid-60's and if you live your life in a blind world
> which I think she may have done--school for the blind, blind friends,
> etc-who'd know. And over the many years I've worked in the blindness field,
> these things were called "blindisms" and I don't know if sighted people
> messed with that. I'd want to know if I was doing something strange and am
> sure my mom in particular would have made no bones about telling me. So the
> same friend who commented on this behavior has said to me, "You are the most
> normal blind person I know." So there you are, but we don't know how we are
> perceived by others all the time anyway.
> 
> Good to see your message, Michelle.  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 6:46 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Sharon
> 
> Most likely, it would have held her back somewhat to rock because it really
> does bother sighted people to look at that. I'm curious as to why a close
> friend or family member didn't talk to her about it gently?
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:19 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.  
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth 
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 14:48:58 -0600
> From: "Judy Jones" <sonshines59 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Manners
> Message-ID: <106C172EC2754CB4B0D274A9FF8D8FED at DESKTOPJOF2B70>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> A nothing?
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Roanna Bacchus via BlParent
> Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 7:32 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: rbacchus228 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Manners
> 
> When we go out to eat I spread a nothing on my lap so I don't make a loss 
> with the food it works all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 2:47 AM, Judy Jones via BlParent <blparent at nfbnet.org> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Another thing I have done. When out at a restaurant, for instance, where 
>> something like BBQ or fried chicken is involved, especially a nice 
>> restaurant, I have been known to ask how the people around me are handling 
>> those dishes. In places where I may have opted for a fork and knife, I 
>> found that other were actually eating with there fingers. Never hurts to 
>> ask.
>> 
>> Judy
>> 
>> Judy
>> Sent From The U2 Mini
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:04:36 -0400
> From: Jody Ianuzzi <thunderwalker321 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <9CFB408B-D31D-4D38-9ACD-AA75C18EB3C6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Hello Joe Elizabeth,
> 
> Your mom sounds very much like mine!
> 
> 
> 
> JODY ?
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> 
> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."  DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Jo Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent <blparent at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I believe my mom may have had some good intentions, combined with a healthy dose of poor parenting from her own childhood.  In any case, though her methods left a lot to be desired, she made me into a very determined person and a pretty competent member of sighted society.  I know how to eat without making a mess.  I know how to move about without being too clumsy, most times, and how to handle myself in a conversation without interrupting or monopolizing, touching people, or taking up other annoying habits that unfortunately, some blind people haven't been taught not to do.  I know very well that the world owes me nothing and that if I want something, I better get my butt out there and work for it.  I know that life isn't fair and I don't expect it to be.  I know that if I want something bad enough, the chasm between where I am now and where what I want is doesn't matter much. And I know that beauty can be found in some very dark places.  My mom taught me all of that--maybe on purpose and maybe in spite of herself.  That I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> -----Original Message----- From: Star Gazer via BlParent
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:14 AM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Cc: Star Gazer
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Sounds like, and you may not want to hear
>> it, that your mom had the right concept but a very poor implementation. The
>> other take is that she wanted to beat up on you and used any way she could
>> to "get away" with it.
>> As for your writer group, she sounds like a bully. I'd call her out on it,
>> and I'd talk with your daughter about bullies, how they aren't confined to
>> the schoolyard.
>> Finally, I'd empower her and yourself if you haven't already to speak up.
>> I've never understood or appreciated the "respect your elders". All people
>> get respect just as all people are can loose respect and age has nothing to
>> do with it. We all decide who is worthy of our respect based on our
>> experiencewith them.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 8:33 PM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> I am quite aware of what my parents used to call "blindisms" or "looking
>> blind."  They, especially my mother, wanted me to appear as sighted as
>> possible in every way.  They couldn't keep me from being blind, much to
>> their despair, but they sure did everything they could to keep me from
>> looking blind.  I never picked up the habit of rocking because if I started
>> doing it, I was likely to get slapped for it.  I learned the proper way to
>> hold a spoon because if my mom caught me clutching one in my fist, she'd
>> reach over and smack my knuckles with the handle of her knife or fork.  And
>> if it took me too many times to get the message, she was known to turn the
>> utensil around and make use of the business end.  I put in many a mile
>> around the circle of our suburban home, from the living room, through the
>> kitchen, down the hallway and back again, practicing a walk with a smooth,
>> loose gait and no foot shuffling.  There would be no "blindisms" when I
>> ventured out in public with my perfectionist family, by God.  So it wasn't
>> easy for me to hear my OCD friend harp on my daughter--my sighted daughter,
>> no less, especially because her premise was that the problem stemmed from
>> the fact that I couldn't see.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sharon Howerton via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 11:19 AM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Cc: Sharon Howerton
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
>> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
>> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
>> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
>> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
>> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
>> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
>> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
>> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
>> Sharon
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>> Bullis via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Cc: Michael Bullis
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
>> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
>> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
>> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
>> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
>> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
>> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
>> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
>> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
>> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
>> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
>> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
>> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
>> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
>> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
>> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
>> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
>> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
>> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
>> daughter.
>> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
>> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
>> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
>> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
>> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
>> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
>> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
>> 
>> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
>> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
>> all can benefit from.
>> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
>> attention.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
>> Creedy via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
>> things just right.
>> 
>> Michelle
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
>> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
>> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
>> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
>> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
>> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
>> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
>> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
>> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
>> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
>> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
>> and future ones.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Cc: Michelle Creedy
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hello Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
>> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
>> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
>> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
>> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
>> 
>> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
>> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
>> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
>> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
>> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
>> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
>> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
>> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
>> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
>> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
>> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
>> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
>> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
>> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
>> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
>> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
>> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
>> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
>> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
>> the almighty vision!
>> 
>> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
>> you. What a degrading experience!
>> 
>> Michelle
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
>> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
>> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
>> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
>> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
>> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
>> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
>> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
>> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
>> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
>> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
>> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
>> think, the better off they and their children will be.
>> 
>> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
>> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
>> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
>> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
>> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
>> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
>> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
>> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
>> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
>> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
>> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
>> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
>> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
>> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
>> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
>> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
>> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
>> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
>> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
>> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
>> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
>> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
>> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
>> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
>> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
>> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
>> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
>> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
>> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
>> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
>> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
>> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
>> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
>> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
>> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
>> help did more harm than good.
>> 
>> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
>> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
>> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
>> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/thunderwalker321%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 18:29:15 -0400
> From: Jody Ianuzzi <thunderwalker321 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <C374D6B3-39E6-40B9-AD8E-24AC76D28186 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> I think body language is an interesting subject. I think I borrowed a book on barred on the subject. Maybe we should list out some specifics.
> 
> I remember Kennis Jernigan made a comment about how he was in court and when I asked him to raise his hand to swear that he was telling the truth he put it up above his head as you would in school. He didn't realize that you were supposed to put your hand at shoulder height. That got me thinking about all the other things that we missed.
> 
> JODY ?
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> 
> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."  DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:07 AM, Michael Bullis via BlParent <blparent at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
>> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
>> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
>> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
>> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
>> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
>> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
>> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
>> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
>> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
>> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
>> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
>> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
>> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
>> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
>> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
>> considered.  I found the session very helpful.  
>> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
>> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
>> daughter.
>> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
>> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
>> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
>> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
>> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
>> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
>> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
>> 
>> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
>> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
>> all can benefit from.
>> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
>> attention.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
>> Creedy via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi Jo Elizabeth 
>> 
>> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
>> things just right.
>> 
>> Michelle
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
>> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
>> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
>> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
>> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
>> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
>> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
>> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
>> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
>> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
>> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
>> and future ones.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Cc: Michelle Creedy
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hello Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
>> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
>> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
>> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
>> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
>> 
>> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
>> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
>> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
>> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
>> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
>> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
>> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
>> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
>> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
>> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
>> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
>> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
>> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
>> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
>> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
>> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
>> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
>> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
>> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
>> the almighty vision!
>> 
>> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
>> you. What a degrading experience!
>> 
>> Michelle
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
>> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
>> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
>> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
>> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
>> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
>> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
>> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
>> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
>> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
>> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
>> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
>> think, the better off they and their children will be.
>> 
>> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
>> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
>> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
>> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
>> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
>> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
>> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
>> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
>> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
>> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
>> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
>> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
>> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
>> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
>> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
>> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
>> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
>> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
>> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
>> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
>> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
>> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
>> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
>> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
>> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
>> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
>> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
>> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
>> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
>> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
>> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
>> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
>> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
>> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
>> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
>> help did more harm than good.
>> 
>> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
>> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
>> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
>> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/thunderwalker321%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:55:35 -0600
> From: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
> To: "Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> Message-ID: <BLU172-DS214618E4FB04AAF971304DAC3A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> I never knew about how to raise a hand in court till now.  I went nearly all 
> the way through public school without knowing how to raise my hand there and 
> give answers.  I didn't volunteer answers readily in class unless I was 
> asked for them.  Put on the spot, more like it, with no way to dodge the 
> teacher's questions.  I still vividly remember the day I learned how to 
> raise my hand in school because it was also the day I met my best high 
> school friend in the ninth grade.  We're still in touch now, some twenty-six 
> years later.  We've been in each other's weddings, come through sad and 
> happy times, been the kind of friends who can go months or occasionally even 
> years without speaking and pick up right where we left off.  Those 
> relationships don't come along often in life.
> 
> Anyway, I was in a manditory ninth grade health class.  I don't remember 
> what question had been asked, but nobody was coming forth with the answer, 
> which I knew.  The silence grew awkward, and finally I muttered the answer, 
> hoping someone nearby would hear it and get the teacher's attention in 
> whatever magical way that sighted students seemed to have mastered, and I 
> had long ago given up on figuring out.  In that particular classroom I was 
> seated with the rest of the students--in those days, in most classrooms, I 
> still sat off in a corner at a separate desk or table.  Isolated. 
> Different.  Separate.  Public school was not run inclusively back then, at 
> least not in a small Colorado farm town.
> 
> "Well, raise your hand!" somebody next to me said in a barely disguised 
> stage whisper.
> 
> "What?"  I turned to face the unfamiliar voice.
> 
> "You know the answer.  Are you going to raise your hand or what?"
> 
> "Raise my hand?"
> 
> "Yeah.  You know, so the teacher can call on you."
> 
> "Huh?  Oh, I don't know ..."
> 
> "Oh okay, it's a blind thing.  I had a blind friend name Becky at my last 
> school.  She missed stuff like that, too."  And this strange girl I'd never 
> met before reached out and stuck my hand up over my head.  "Over here.  She 
> knows the answer."
> 
> Of course, by then I was so flustered, being the shy one who hardly ever 
> talked to anybody at school, that I'd forgotten the question and the answer, 
> and practically my own name besides.  So the strange girl repeated my answer 
> to the class.  But after the bell rang we got to talking, and the rest is 
> history.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jody Ianuzzi via BlParent
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 4:29 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jody Ianuzzi
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I think body language is an interesting subject. I think I borrowed a book 
> on barred on the subject. Maybe we should list out some specifics.
> 
> I remember Kennis Jernigan made a comment about how he was in court and when 
> I asked him to raise his hand to swear that he was telling the truth he put 
> it up above his head as you would in school. He didn't realize that you were 
> supposed to put your hand at shoulder height. That got me thinking about all 
> the other things that we missed.
> 
> JODY ?
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> 
> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." 
> DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:07 AM, Michael Bullis via BlParent 
>> <blparent at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
>> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair 
>> styles,
>> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a 
>> "right"
>> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
>> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I 
>> was
>> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
>> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some 
>> practice
>> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
>> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
>> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
>> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
>> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
>> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
>> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
>> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
>> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
>> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
>> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
>> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
>> daughter.
>> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, 
>> many
>> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
>> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
>> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these 
>> children
>> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old 
>> trying
>> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
>> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
>> 
>> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
>> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
>> all can benefit from.
>> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
>> attention.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
>> Creedy via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
>> things just right.
>> 
>> Michelle
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
>> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, 
>> it
>> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
>> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to 
>> hold
>> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
>> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends 
>> to
>> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
>> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
>> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
>> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
>> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current 
>> incident
>> and future ones.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
>> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
>> Cc: Michelle Creedy
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hello Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how 
>> sighted
>> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
>> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
>> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
>> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
>> 
>> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may 
>> be
>> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
>> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted 
>> parents
>> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
>> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
>> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved 
>> your
>> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give 
>> you
>> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular 
>> manner
>> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
>> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
>> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life 
>> where
>> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given 
>> in
>> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started 
>> talking
>> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
>> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little 
>> and
>> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, 
>> it
>> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
>> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
>> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
>> the almighty vision!
>> 
>> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both 
>> of
>> you. What a degrading experience!
>> 
>> Michelle
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
>> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
>> 
>> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
>> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought 
>> the
>> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
>> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
>> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
>> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
>> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
>> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
>> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
>> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a 
>> thousand
>> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
>> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, 
>> I
>> think, the better off they and their children will be.
>> 
>> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the 
>> members
>> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite 
>> obsessive
>> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
>> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating 
>> mine
>> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
>> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
>> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, 
>> but
>> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
>> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
>> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
>> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
>> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
>> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
>> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
>> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
>> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
>> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
>> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
>> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
>> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
>> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help." 
>> My
>> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so 
>> she
>> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
>> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few 
>> moments
>> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
>> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
>> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
>> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
>> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
>> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
>> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how 
>> dare
>> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
>> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
>> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
>> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
>> help did more harm than good.
>> 
>> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
>> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
>> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
>> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
>> 
>> Jo Elizabeth
>> 
>> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
>> is my award-winning novel,
>> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlParent mailing list
>> BlParent at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> BlParent:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/thunderwalker321%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of BlParent Digest, Vol 146, Issue 6
> ****************************************