[Cabs-talk] Capcha
Justin Harford
jharford at calmail.berkeley.edu
Wed Nov 11 23:50:37 UTC 2009
I appreciate your input Michael, and would like to first again note
that we weren't referring to your comments, and second to reiterate to
all on the list that the form will not be used on the website.
Thank you
Justin Harford
Secretary
On Nov 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Michael Peterson wrote:
> Hi Angela. My reaction to the captcha was not negative
> feedback to Justin shouldn't be construed that way.
> I too tried the capcha and with speakers couldn't get it to work.
> Tried it three times maybe with earphones.
> As for posative solutions I totally agree with Justin about the use
> of the math problem that works any screen reader should be able to
> read it.
> If we have to be so careful about offending someone that we can't
> ask a question like I did who will post to the list?
> Fuzzy warmth is nice and I like it but this is an overreaction.
> Justin wasn't being criticized.
> Even you have taken issue with capcha in the past.
> I suggest if you want this kind of input blocked that the list be
> moderated.Don't worry about such further post from me, however.
>
> I don't expect I will post further.
> I'm not offended nor am I upset but we can't wear our feelings on
> our sleeves either.
> If we can than I guess I'm doing that now right?
> But no I am not.
> I simply ask a question and addressed
> concerns about capchat. You say the capcha
> works fine so
> everyone who is hard of hearing can use it but
> I can't so obviously I'm wrong or
> something is wrong because as I said two
> challenges didn't work for me.
> You talk about privately and gently correcting
> yet your publicly
> Calling me out on this list!
> I am simply defending my action.
>
> This to me is very scarry.
> But if it's what the majority wants so be it
> my last post.
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
> To: "'California Association of Blind Students Mailing List'" <cabs-talk at nfbnet.org
> >
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cabs-talk] Capcha
>
>
>> Dear CABS members,
>> First of all I would like to compliment Justin on the excellent work
>> he has done over the past couple of weeks on the CABS web site. He
>> has taken
>> ownership of the project, putting his heart into it in a way which
>> is a
>> shining example for the rest of us to follow.
>> The audio CAPTIA which Justin has found is very accessible to blind
>> people, and to those of us who are hard of hearing. I had no
>> trouble with
>> it, and my hearing, or lack of it, makes most audio CAPTIAS almost
>> impossible. This is quite literally the best CAPTIA I have come
>> across.
>> The fact that this CAPTIA is not accessible to deaf-blind folks is a
>> concern to me as well as to Justin. I appreciate the concerns
>> Michael has
>> expressed on this list, and would like to invite him and others to
>> join us
>> in helping to find a solution to this problem. It is one thing to
>> point out
>> a problem and encourage others to fix it, but joining in the effort
>> and
>> helping to find a positive solution is truly praise worthy.
>> As your president, I'm concerned about CABS members giving each
>> other what could be construed as negative feedback on a public
>> forum. Justin
>> originally posted to this list asking for our help, and I would ask
>> that all
>> future posts be directed in this vain. If we build each other in
>> public,
>> sharing the knowledge and wisdom we've all been blessed with, and
>> gently
>> correct in private when necessary, we will be a much friendlier
>> CABS which
>> people will truly enjoy volunteering their time to serve.
>> With deepest sincerity
>> Angela Fowler (president)
>> California Association of Blind Students
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cabs-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:cabs-talk-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Justin Harford
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:05 PM
>> To: California Association of Blind Students Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Cabs-talk] Capcha
>>
>> Good morning CABS
>>
>> In light of the issues concerns brought up regarding the captcha
>> that we
>> wanted to post I would like to say a few things with the purpose of
>> explaining myself and walking away with my dignity intact..
>>
>> First to answer the question of whether captcha is really
>> necessary, the
>> consensus among web developers is that it is, and not to keep out
>> blind
>> people or blind/deaf people as is the feeling in some parts, but to
>> keep out
>> spambots which may easily post messages to a form as well as any
>> human if no
>> precautions are taken. It was expressed that captcha is consisting
>> of
>> visual images that blind people cannot access, yet this is not the
>> definition of captcha. A captcha is
>> merely a challenge that the user is put to in order to send a form.
>> It is supposed to be a challenge that only a human could complete.
>> It could
>> be visual as most are, but it can be other things too. I did a
>> captcha on a
>> disability related sight that was a math problem.
>>
>> I had selected this captcha keeping our blind users in mind. I
>> myself use a
>> screen reader and could speak of ample experiences in which, if not
>> for the
>> small bit of vision I possess, I would have been cut out from a
>> number of
>> things. And no, the fact that I am a partial does not minimize the
>> outrage
>> I feel when I see a captcha that is just an image.
>>
>> As a result of this awareness, I took pains to make sure that if A
>> captcha
>> were to be implemented that it would be not only accessible to a
>> blind user,
>> but pleasant and easy to use. The one I selected gives you clips
>> from old
>> movies and radio shows and has you copy the words you hear into a
>> field.
>> You don't have to get them all right. It automatically routs your
>> cursor to
>> the edit field so you don't have to fumble about trying to find the
>> edit
>> field as the captcha is being spoken. In addition, the text that
>> people
>> input with this captcha goes towards an effort to digitalize old
>> books and
>> audio in a text format, another positive for the blind. Thus I
>> hope you
>> would understand my excitement at finding such an option.
>>
>> However, while I do think that most of the arguments made against
>> this
>> captcha are unfounded, there is one important point still standing,
>> the
>> issue for deaf and blind users. In the sight that hosted this
>> captcha, they
>> mention this as well, and that alternatives like email
>> authentication should
>> be offered. .
>>
>> I still sort of think that we should have an accessible captcha as
>> it sets
>> an example for other developers to follow. I can promise you right
>> away
>> that you will not convince many developers to compromise the
>> security of
>> their websites altogether by simply leaving captcha out, much
>> better to show
>> them how blind people can manage such security implementations. is
>> there no
>> way we could set up an alternative for deaf blind? Or even better,
>> set up a
>> captcha that asks basic math problems like that one I tried a while
>> back?
>>
>> Meanwhile, I have deleted the link to the form on our contacts
>> page, thus
>> making it impossible for anyone to access the form from our home
>> page. If
>> anyone still cares to give input on the matter, the form can be
>> still found
>> directly at:
>>
>> http://www.nfbcal.org/cabs/contact/contactform.php
>>
>> Eventually I will just delete it from the server.
>>
>> When I found that option, I was just so overly excited at how much
>> better it
>> was from other accessible captchas I had done, that I just wanted
>> to show it
>> off to people. I apologize for whatever inconveniences it may have
>> caused
>> and hope that at least those who tried the form might see where I was
>> initially coming from.
>>
>> Regards
>> Justin Harford
>> CABS Secretary
>> On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Michael Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Justin I haven't looked yet and that might answer my question.
>>> But is capcha absolutely necessary?
>>> Generally I don't like it Lots of times the sound capcha's have
>>> really garbled sound.
>>> I'll maybe check and send a test message to see how I like this
>>> capcha.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
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