[Cabs-talk] Capcha

Wed Nov 11 23:40:37 UTC 2009

We weren't referring to you.
On Nov 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Michael Peterson wrote:

>           Hi Angela. My reaction to the captcha was not negative  
> feedback to Justin shouldn't be construed that way.
> I too tried the capcha and with speakers couldn't get it to work.
> Tried it three times maybe with earphones.
> As for posative solutions I totally agree with Justin about the use  
> of the math problem that works any screen reader should be able to  
> read it.
> If we have to be so careful about offending someone that we can't  
> ask a question like I did who will post to the list?
> Fuzzy warmth is nice and I like it but this is an overreaction.  
> Justin wasn't being criticized.
> Even you have taken issue with capcha in the past.
> I suggest if you want this kind of input blocked that the list be  
> moderated.Don't worry about such further post from me, however.
>
> I don't expect I will post further.
> I'm not offended nor am I upset but we can't wear our feelings on  
> our sleeves either.
> If we can than I guess I'm doing that now right?
> But no I am not.
> I simply ask a question and addressed
> concerns about capchat. You say the capcha
> works fine so
> everyone who is hard of hearing can use it but
> I can't so obviously I'm wrong or
> something is wrong because as I said two
> challenges didn't work for me.
> You talk about privately and gently correcting
> yet your publicly
> Calling me out on this list!
> I am simply defending my action.
>
> This to me is very scarry.
> But if it's what the majority wants so be it
> my last post.
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
> To: "'California Association of Blind Students Mailing List'" <cabs-talk at nfbnet.org 
> >
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cabs-talk] Capcha
>
>
>> Dear CABS members,
>> First of all I would like to compliment Justin on the excellent work
>> he has done over the past couple of weeks on the CABS web site. He  
>> has taken
>> ownership of the project, putting his heart into it in a way which  
>> is a
>> shining example for the rest of us to follow.
>> The audio CAPTIA which Justin has found is very accessible to blind
>> people, and to those of us who are hard of hearing. I had no  
>> trouble with
>> it, and my hearing, or lack of it, makes most audio CAPTIAS almost
>> impossible. This is quite literally the best CAPTIA I have come  
>> across.
>> The fact that this CAPTIA is not accessible to deaf-blind folks is a
>> concern to me as well as to Justin. I appreciate the concerns  
>> Michael has
>> expressed on this list, and would like to invite him and others to  
>> join us
>> in helping to find a solution to this problem. It is one thing to  
>> point out
>> a problem and encourage others to fix it, but joining in the effort  
>> and
>> helping to find a positive solution is truly praise worthy.
>> As your president, I'm concerned about CABS members giving each
>> other what could be construed as negative feedback on a public  
>> forum. Justin
>> originally posted to this list asking for our help, and I would ask  
>> that all
>> future posts be directed in this vain. If we build each other in  
>> public,
>> sharing the knowledge and wisdom we've all been blessed with, and  
>> gently
>> correct in private when necessary, we will be a much friendlier  
>> CABS which
>> people will truly enjoy volunteering their time to serve.
>> With deepest sincerity
>> Angela Fowler (president)
>> California Association of Blind Students
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cabs-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:cabs-talk- 
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Justin Harford
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:05 PM
>> To: California Association of Blind Students Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Cabs-talk] Capcha
>>
>> Good morning CABS
>>
>> In light of the issues concerns brought up regarding the captcha  
>> that we
>> wanted to post I would like to say a few things with the purpose of
>> explaining myself and walking away with my dignity intact..
>>
>> First to answer the question of whether captcha is really  
>> necessary, the
>> consensus among web developers is that it is, and not to keep out  
>> blind
>> people or blind/deaf people as is the feeling in some parts, but to  
>> keep out
>> spambots which may easily post messages to a form as well as any  
>> human if no
>> precautions are taken.  It was expressed that captcha is consisting  
>> of
>> visual images that blind people cannot access, yet this is not the
>> definition of captcha.  A captcha is
>> merely a challenge that the user is put to in order to send a form.
>> It is supposed to be a challenge that only a human could complete.   
>> It could
>> be visual as most are, but it can be other things too.  I did a  
>> captcha on a
>> disability related sight that was a math problem.
>>
>> I had selected this captcha keeping our blind users in mind.  I  
>> myself use a
>> screen reader and could speak of ample experiences in which, if not  
>> for the
>> small bit of vision I possess, I would have been cut out from a  
>> number of
>> things.  And no, the fact that I am a partial does not minimize the  
>> outrage
>> I feel when I see a captcha that is just an image.
>>
>> As a result of this awareness, I took pains to make sure that if A  
>> captcha
>> were to be implemented that it would be not only accessible to a  
>> blind user,
>> but pleasant and easy to use.  The one I selected gives you clips  
>> from old
>> movies and radio shows and has you copy the words you hear into a  
>> field.
>> You don't have to get them all right.  It automatically routs your  
>> cursor to
>> the edit field so you don't have to fumble about trying to find the  
>> edit
>> field as the captcha is being spoken.  In addition, the text that  
>> people
>> input with this captcha goes towards an effort to digitalize old  
>> books and
>> audio in a text format, another positive for the blind.  Thus I  
>> hope you
>> would understand my excitement at finding such an option.
>>
>> However, while I do think that most of the arguments made against  
>> this
>> captcha are unfounded, there is one important point still standing,  
>> the
>> issue for deaf and blind users.  In the sight that hosted this  
>> captcha, they
>> mention this as well, and that alternatives like email  
>> authentication should
>> be offered.  .
>>
>> I still sort of think that we should have an accessible captcha as  
>> it sets
>> an example for other developers to follow.  I can promise you right  
>> away
>> that you will not convince many developers to compromise the  
>> security of
>> their websites altogether by simply leaving captcha out, much  
>> better to show
>> them how blind people can manage such security implementations.  is  
>> there no
>> way we could set up an alternative for deaf blind?  Or even better,  
>> set up a
>> captcha that asks basic math problems like that one I tried a while  
>> back?
>>
>> Meanwhile, I have deleted the link to the form on our contacts  
>> page, thus
>> making it impossible for anyone to access the form from our home  
>> page.  If
>> anyone still cares to give input on the matter, the form can be  
>> still found
>> directly at:
>>
>> http://www.nfbcal.org/cabs/contact/contactform.php
>>
>> Eventually I will just delete it from the server.
>>
>> When I found that option, I was just so overly excited at how much  
>> better it
>> was from other accessible captchas I had done, that I just wanted  
>> to show it
>> off to people.  I apologize for whatever inconveniences it may have  
>> caused
>> and hope that at least those who tried the form might see where I was
>> initially coming from.
>>
>> Regards
>> Justin Harford
>> CABS Secretary
>> On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Michael Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Justin I haven't looked yet and that might answer my question.
>>> But is capcha absolutely necessary?
>>> Generally I don't like it Lots of times the sound capcha's have
>>> really garbled sound.
>>> I'll maybe check and send a test message to see how I like this
>>> capcha.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
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