[Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question

Sun May 16 20:39:55 UTC 2010

Oh, I don't know about that.

I go through victor reader streams about one every 18 months.  I don't
change our phones any more often than that.

The iPhone question, in particular, is going to come down to where NLS
decides to set the boundary for secure key storage.  I personally
don't think the iPhone will make it, but I hope Gregg tries anyway :)

Jim

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 11:41:24AM -0700, Mike Freeman wrote:
> One more thought:
> 
> Devices such as the iPhone become obsolete much more quickly than
> adaptive tech for the blind. So you'd constantly be registering your
> new iPhones. Impractical to my way of thinking.
> 
> Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Kearney"
> <gkearney at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
> 
> 
> >I guess I should explain a bit more what we are asking and
> >thinking  about here.
> >
> >Daisy Bookworm and Olearia  were written primarily to support
> >books  from our library at ABWA as well as Vision Australia and
> >RNZFB. They  will read any non encrypted DAISY book. As it happens
> >this means every  book from every other library for the blind in
> >the world. The sole  exceptions are RFB&D, who we are working with
> >to provide playback, and  the NLS system.
> >
> >What we are looking into is to have the iPhone/iPad/iPod touch
> >hardware authorised as playback device in the same way that the
> >VictorReader Stream is authorised. That is to say that the
> >hardware  itself would be identified as belonging to an authorised
> >user. In the  case of the VictorReader Stream this is done by
> >serial number and an  authorisation key tied to that number. A
> >similar thing could be done  with the iPhone/iPad/iPod there by
> >providing proof that the owner of  such was an authorised user. In
> >effect the iPhone/iPad/iPod is nothing  more than a playback
> >device like the Stream and could be treated the  same way.
> >
> >I must admit that the status of all of this in U.S. Copyright law
> >has  be a bit confused to say the least. Let take a look at two
> >organisations both producing copyrighted works under U.S. law:
> >
> >The NLS seems to be saying that it is a requirment under the law
> >that books be in an encrypted format playable only on special
> >authorised devices.
> >
> >Bookshare on the other hand says that it can provide, in many
> >cases  the text of the same books, in clear text requiring only
> >that the user  have a user name and password to download and
> >unpack the same. Once a  Bookshare title has been unzipped all of
> >the text is in a human  readable for and can be simply transformed
> >into any number of formats  in much the same way Braille can be
> >back translated.
> >
> >So who is in the right here? it is the same book and if anything
> >the Bookshare version would be even more valuable to pirates as it
> >has the text of the book and not simply a recording. Both these
> >claims can not  at the same time be true the law either requires
> >encryption and  special devices or it does not.
> >
> >In any event there are many technical issues to solve, most
> >notably  the issues surrounding the playback of the audio in the
> >NLS format and  we may never be able to do that and preserve
> >battery life.
> >
> >So to be clear here we are not asking the NLS to change the format
> >of their books and we are clearly not asking or suggesting that
> >anyone "share" the book with unauthorised users. Right now we are
> >only asking what the process is to get a device authorised for NLS
> >playback as  other devices have been in the past and to what
> >extent if any there is  interest in the print disabled community
> >in having such playback on  the iPhone/iPad/iPod.
> >
> >
> >
> >Gregory Kearney
> >Manager - Accessible Media
> >Association for the Blind of Western Australia
> >61 Kitchener Avenue, PO Box 101
> >Victoria Park 6979, WA Australia
> >
> >Telephone: +61 (08) 9311 8202
> >Telephone: +1 (307) 224-4022 (North America)
> >Fax: +61 (08) 9361 8696
> >Toll free: 1800 658 388 (Australia only)
> >Email: gkearney at gmail.com
> >
> >On 16/05/2010, at 7:09 PM, Fr. John Sheehan wrote:
> >
> >>You have to remember that NLS is governed by the publishers. As
> >>long  as their material is in a proprietary format, they can
> >>issue the  materials without worrying about copyright. Braille
> >>is a proprietary  format - and when they went to audio, NLS
> >>devised its own unique  system first for tape, now digital. If
> >>they open it up for wider  use, they will be required to get
> >>individual copyright permission  for each work, or pay. Either
> >>would cripple the service. But in  terms of "sharing" with more
> >>popular devices, they don't really have  much choice. Remember
> >>how the publishers and then authors reacted  when the Kindle 2
> >>was released with its text to speech feature? Same  issue.
> >>Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
> >>Chairman
> >>
> >>
> >>Xavier Society for the Blind
> >>154 East 23rd St
> >>New York, NY 10010
> >>(212) 473-7800
> >>Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by
> >>searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch -
> >>www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money
> >>for us! Thank you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>________________________________
> >>From: Lynn Evans <evans-lynn at comcast.net>
> >>To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 2:46:22 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
> >>
> >>Just being a smart ass here:
> >>
> >>With all the emails flying back and forth here, we haven't yet
> >>convinced NLS
> >>to release their proprietary format?
> >>
> >>hmmmmm
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Flint Million" <fmillion at gmail.com>
> >>To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 1:50 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
> >>
> >>
> >>I think another possible issue is that the iPod has an AAC/MP3 decoder
> >>in hardware, but not an AMR-WB+ decoder. I may be completely wrong on
> >>that since the iPhone is probably using some kind of AMR audio for the
> >>phone component, but I have never read any specs on it. Also it'd  be
> >>logical that the iPod touch would lack such a decoder even if one is
> >>in the iPhone. (And it could also be that the iPhone's decoder, if
> >>any, is part of the GSM hardware itself and not part of the media
> >>playback chipset.) This would mean we'd be reduced to decoding the
> >>book content in software, which would potentially reduce battery life.
> >>One of the selling points of the iPod touch is its seriously long
> >>playback time - they rate it at about 30 hours for music, which
> >>matches our big tabletop NLS players - but they achieve this by doing
> >>as much as they can in hardware using specialized very-low-power
> >>chips. Anything done in software on the device eats the battery life
> >>away, because the main processor, while efficient, can't compete with
> >>a specialized low-power decoding chip for media content.
> >>
> >>And of course, the issue still stands with how to get the book content
> >>on to the device. I may be wrong, but I think Apple disapproves of
> >>methods of loading content that involve simple drag-and-drop. All of
> >>the apps I've seen available on the app store for content consumption
> >>require you to either use WebDAV or FTP or a traditional web server
> >>style upload mechanism. This adds yet another complexity to the
> >>process. Apple's App Store policies seem to include some unwritten
> >>rules about things like this (I'm sure some have heard the stories of
> >>apps being rejected for no apparent reason), so this is just another
> >>thing to worry about.
> >>
> >>FM
> >>
> >>
> >>On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>  wrote:
> >>>Besides, multi-use devices do each of their functions with equal
> >>>mediocrity!
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Burke, Dan (DSS)" <burke at mso.umt.edu
> >>>>
> >>>To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:35 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>It's logical - everybody is searching for a single multi-use  device. I
> >>>>would love to be able to use my smart phone to read Daisy and NLS.
> >>>>
> >>>>But htis is not a world that always makes sense, is it?
> >>>>(grin)
> >>>>Dan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Dan Burke
> >>>>Assistant Director/Assistive Technology Coordinator
> >>>>
> >>>>Disability Services for Studentstss
> >>>>The University of Montana
> >>>>Emma B. Lommasson Center 154
> >>>>Missoula, MT 59812
> >>>>
> >>>>406.24.4424
> >>>>406.243.5330 FAX
> >>>>
> >>>>www.umt.edu/disability
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org ]
> >>>>On Behalf Of Eric SS
> >>>>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 4:21 AM
> >>>>To: 'Discussion of Digital Talking Books'
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
> >>>>
> >>>>I would think anyone who currently uses one of the dedicated
> >>>>NLS- capable
> >>>>devices and has an Iphone/Touch/Pad, would be very happy to be  able to
> >>>>use
> >>>>just one device. I know a couple of folks who don't use the
> >>>>NLS digital
> >>>>service because they do not want to deal with another
> >>>>device, but would
> >>>>become enthusiastic users if they could listen on their Iphone, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>>Eric SS
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>>
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