[Electronics-talk] ADA [was "RE: ... ATM's"]

Sat Jul 3 22:37:34 UTC 2010

I did not mean to imply that nobody has ever been prosecuted under the ADA. 
The problem is that the sentences for violating the ADA are so marginal as 
to be ineffective.  To my knowledge, nobody has ever been sent to jail for 
violating the civil rights of a disabled person under the ADA.  Here in NYC, 
the local transit agency, the MTA,  has been flouting the ADA for years with 
impunity.  Rather than make the transit system more accessible, the MTA 
simply pays the fines, pleads poverty and raises fares to cover their 
inefficiency and mismanagement.  It is actually cheaper for the MTA to pay 
the nominal fines than to spend the millions of dollars necessary to improve 
accessibility.  Are MTA officials ever called to task or prosecuted?  Of 
course not.  Their attitude is go sue us, we don't care.  We'll just pass 
the cost along to our customers.  So until the ADA is given real teeth, it 
will remain largely ineffective.

Gerald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'" 
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: [Electronics-talk] ADA [was "RE: ... ATM's"]

> How do you know that no one has been successfully prosecuted under the 
> ADA?
> If I go to http://www.allbusiness.com/specialty-businesses/922329-1.html, 
> it
> says the following:
>
> "Evidence on Enforcement: Complaints and Resolutions"
>
> "One slice of the implementation picture is provided through information
> compiled by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) on ADA
> discrimination
> claims and their disposition. From the beginning of ADA enforcement of 
> Title
> I in July 1992 through the end of fiscal year 1998, 108,939 charges of
> discrimination
> were filed with the EEOC, and 106,988 were resolved (Equal Employment
> Opportunity Commission, 1999) Charges rose to an annual high of 19,798 in
> 1995 and
> have since dropped annually to 17,806 by 1998. Of the complaints resolved 
> as
> of 1998, about 11% were resolved to the benefit of people with 
> disabilities.
> About 5% of resolutions were negotiated settlements where those making
> charges received benefits, another 6% were cases where charges were
> withdrawn upon
> receipt of benefits, and 1% were successful settlements where relief was
> granted to the charger and all other adversely affected parties. Most of 
> the
> remaining
> resolutions were dropped because no probable cause was found upon
> investigation or because of administrative closures (e.g., failure to 
> locate
> charging
> party, charging party failed to respond to EEOC communications, closed due
> to the outcome of related litigation, etc.)."
>
> This tells me that in a 6 year period, over 10,000 cases were settled on
> behalf of the disabled claimant. Maybe this isn't a resounding success, 
> but
> I'm not sure that makes it a joke either. This is also just one aspect of
> the ADA, namely employment accommodations.
>
> Also, just looking at successful prosecutions of just one aspect of the 
> ADA
> doesn't mean the ADA as a whole is a joke. How much have policies and
> practices of companies and employers changed in response to the ADA and 
> the
> US federal governments public commitment to the rights of the disabled? 
> The
> URL I listed above provides a bit more information and discussion on how
> successful the ADA has been.
>
> I'm not saying the ADA is perfect, and I'm not saying it couldn't be
> stronger, but I think things could be a lot worse with no legislation at 
> all
> or something even weaker. Hopefully everyone who feels the ADA is a joke 
> is
> working on their own or through a blindness advocacy group to strengthen 
> the
> law and the regulations associated with it.
>
> --
> Christopher
> chaltain at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 2:14 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>
>
> The ADA is a joke.  Has anyone ever been criminally prosecuted for 
> violating
>
> a disabled person's civil rights under the ADA?  Of course not.  So banks
> can routinely disregard the ADA with respect to accessible ATM's.  If they
> get caught brading the rules, they simply pay the nominal fine and merely
> raise their fees to cover it.  Just the cost of doing business. 
> Personally,
> I never use ATM's.  Any time I need cash, I just walk up to the customer
> service desk at my local bank and the service rep assigned to my account
> handles the transaction.  Safe and simple.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Johnson" <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
> To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>
>
>> Just as an FYI, I looked at the Access Board and took it one step further
>> to
>> see what the ADAAG held in regards to guidelines surrounding accessible
>> ATM's.  It is very vague, and unlike so many other parts of the ADAAG, it
>> lacks the specific elements an ATM should contain. So, the answer to my
>> question is yes, there are specifications within the ADA governing access
>> to
>> ATM's for the blind, but it is so vague that it creates a loophole for
>> financial institutions to get through and around.  Fortunately to the 
>> work
>> and strong advocacy of organizations such as the NFB, we see that larger
>> financial companies realize that the market for this technology goes way
>> beyond persons who are blind/visually impaired.
>>
>> Just my opinion,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carolyn Brock
>> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 12:40 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>
>> Good grief!  It's simply easier--and cheaper--for banks to have all the
>> machines made to the same specifications, rather than worrying about 
>> where
>> they should put accessible machines and where not.  For starters, they'd
>> have to hire someone full-time to read all the chatter on lists like this
>> one!  So each of us can just plain choose:  walk into the bank, walk up 
>> to
>> an outside ATM, have a driver do the transaction for us, sit in the back
>> seat and do the transaction ourselves, or skip the whole thing by using
>> debit or credit cards for everything.  What's the big deal?
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 10:26 AM
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>
>>> Hey! I was joking.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tim Shaw" <tshaw2007 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have never been afraid of getting mugged. If you act confident you
>>>> are no more likely to get mugged doing it that a person driving
>>>> through the ATM is to get carjacked
>>>>
>>>>> From: k7uij at panix.com
>>>>> To: electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 09:26:01 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>>>>
>>>>> And get mugged! <g>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joyce Porter" <joyce.m.porter at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'"
>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 6:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > That would work if the cab driver would do it. Personally I'd much
>>>>> > rather be able to walk up to it.
>>>>> > Joyce
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>>>>> > Andrews
>>>>> > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:09 PM
>>>>> > To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes, I do it regularly.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dave
>>>>> > At 07:54 AM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> >>Actually, we (NFB) are advocating that such machines be accessible.
>>>>> >>Could not you envision a circumstance wherein you were in a cab and
>>>>> >>wanted cash so had the cabby pull up so the machine faced the back
>>>>> >>window where you are?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Mike
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Porter"
>>>>> > <joyce.m.porter at verizon.net>
>>>>> >>To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'"
>>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> >>Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 3:30 AM
>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] ATM's
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>Speaking of ATM's, my bank has one with speech but guess where it
>>>>> >>>is!
>>
>>>>> >>>It
>>>>> > is
>>>>> >>>at the drive-up window. Tell me how much sense that makes. That is
>>>>> >>>the
>>>>> >>>only ATM this bank has. Today I plan to call them.
>>>>> >>>Joyce
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com
>>>>> > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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