[Electronics-talk] TV with EasilyaccessibleAudioDescribedprogramming.

Sun Sep 22 09:20:50 UTC 2013

I'm not saying we shouldn't be frustrated, and I'm not actually a 
Pollyanna. I already think you're doing a lot of what needs to be done. 
Work with and support organizations like the NFB. Contact businesses 
when they're violating laws or just let them know you're a customer and 
want accessibility. Write legislators when requested to by the NFB to 
push for various laws and regulations. File reports with the FCC, DoJ 
and other agencies when you find a company violating the law. If the NFB 
isn't doing enough then speak up. If enough members feel strongly enough 
then the NFB, which is democratic, will listen.

The laws are confusing, but the NFB and lists like this can help. I 
don't think we have any laws covering appliances right now, but if you 
need access to a multifunction printer at your office then that could be 
covered under the ADA.

I'm not sure the resolution on ebook readers wasn't part of why Amazon 
incorporated accessibility into their IOS apps. This doesn't cover all 
of Amazon's ebook readers, but it does now give the blind access to the 
largest source of on line books.

It will be hard work, it'll be slow and it'll be frustrating, but I know 
it's better than doing nothing. It's also a lot better than trying to 
convince others that it's all hopeless and pointless.

On 09/21/2013 09:29 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> Christopher,
> I agree we need to make change.
> You said
> "but let's get over that now and work
> with what we have to make things better."
>
> But how? To my knowledge the technology bill of rights is dead and i
> don't see nfb advocating policies
> to get these cable companies to make their menus and features accessible.
>
> I live with family, so if I wait for help, I can get it. But I cannot
> have the same access like everyone else does on my own. I still watch
> tv, but my experience would be much better with the array of services
> provided by verizon fios.
> Some inaccessible things include being able to set the DVR, use the On
> demand service to watch past shows,
> order movies, and see the schedule of programs. I do have a little
> vision and can read one line of text if I'm real close to the tv so if I
> turn on a channel I can see the name of the show. But it would be very
> hard to read multiple lines of small text to operate menus; I have
> nystagmus and the contrast of the text on the background isn't good so
> this isn't doable.
>
> Yeah, we need to be positive and enact change but its hard when little
> change happens and companies turn on us.
> For instance, surely adobe knows we need their suite of products to be
> accessible; okay we cannot draw or layout pictures, but some adobe
> products like adobe connect and flash should be accessible.
> We passed resolutions in nfb regarding adobe's products. Additionally,
> we passed resolutions regarding getting access to the major ebook
> readers such as the Nook and Kindle.
> However, those products still remain inaccessible. We keep having the
> same resolutions, and they are important ones, but those resolutions
> don't seem to be getting the action we are seeking with those companies.
> But, I see what you mean. While I'm as frustrated as Gerald with tvs and
> digital menus on products, I live life still.  I use my victor products
> as mp3 players and daisy players. For the few things still on lovely
> tapes, I use my wonderful handi cassette II player.
> I also just use old fashioned cds because its easier than downloading
> mp3 music.
> I use the tv and just enjoy what I can with what little I see and the
> dialogue.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 2:22 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] TV with
> EasilyaccessibleAudioDescribedprogramming.
>
> I can see where someone would be frustrated with the pace of change, and
> I agree that lip service is tiresome. I don't see Gerald's posts as
> being frustrated with the lack of progress though. there's no
> suggestions on what to do. there's no point in passing or enforcing
> laws, there's no point in contacting your cable provider, there's no
> point in doing anything from what I can tell reading Gerald's posts. I
> can understand being frustrated, but let's get over that now and work
> with what we have to make things better.
>
> I don't get the whole microwave statement though.
>
> On 09/21/2013 12:54 PM, cheez wrote:
>> I think I can safely say, Gerald, and others, would like to see things
>> progress at a faster rate.  Lip service is tiresome.  I see no reason
>> why the blind community, can't live in a microwave world, like the
>> sighted community does.
>> Vince
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] TV with Easily
>> accessibleAudioDescribedprogramming.
>>
>>
>>> and your solution, other than just throwing your hands up in the air
>>> and giving up because it's impossible, is what exactly?
>>>
>>> Where is Comcast going to start if it doesn't start with a prototype?
>>> How can this not be seen as a step in the right direction? Should
>>> comcast not be investing in this technology because Time Warner
>>> doesn't have a solution for you on the shelf right now? How do you
>>> know time Warner doesn't have any such plans?
>>>
>>> I don't think the FCC is as inept as you think, and the fact is that
>>> there are more laws on the books right now than there has ever been in
>>> the past. Obviously, execution and implementation needs to catch up,
>>> but again, I don't see how having these laws on the books isn't a good
>>> idea and a step in the right direction.
>>>
>>> Obviously your doom and gloom predictions are going to come true
>>> sometimes. For me, I'd rather look at how my accessibility right now
>>> is greater than it's ever been and keep working hard to make sure it
>>> keeps getting better and the areas where it's lacking get addressed
>>> through awareness and legislation.
>>>
>>> On 09/21/2013 12:02 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This podcast merely demonstrated a prototype of a possible future cable
>>>> box design.  It did not demonstrate the features of a cable box that is
>>>> available right now to Comcast customers, nor did it offer "proof" that
>>>> the introduction of such a device is imminent.  Indeed, nowhere in the
>>>> podcast did I hear the Comcast rep mention when this talking cable box
>>>> would become available to any blind or disabled customer who requests
>>>> one.  I can tell you that Time Warner, the cable provider that I am
>>>> stuck with has no plans to offer such a talking cable box in the
>>>> foreseeable future.  Nor will they be forced to do so.  Last month,
>>>> they
>>>> blacked out CBS for millions of their customers over a contract dispute
>>>> despite the fact that the FCC "must carry" rule requires them to
>>>> provide
>>>> all local, over-the-air channels to their customers.  Was Time Warner
>>>> punished for its egregious action?  Of course not, because the FCC is
>>>> totally inept and ineffectual as a regulatory agency.  So if Time
>>>> Warner
>>>> and its other cable rivals fail to comply with the new FCC rules that
>>>> require them to offer accessible cable boxes, what is going to happen?
>>>> Are they going to be fined?  Maybe, but not likely.  Are their
>>>> executives going to face criminal prosecution for violating the civil
>>>> rights of their blind and disabled customers?  Of course not.  So
>>>> excuse
>>>> me if you find my cynicism annoying.  Remember all the hoopla over the
>>>> Insignia Narrator talking HD radio when it was first demonstrated last
>>>> year?  I skeptically predicted that it would be discontinued within a
>>>> year.  How did that work out?  Did Best Buy make any kind of concerted
>>>> effort to find a new manufacturer for this product when the original
>>>> one
>>>> decided to stop making it?  I don't think so.  And Panasonic
>>>> demonstrated a prototype of a TV with talking menus in Europe a few
>>>> years ago, but it never became available in the US, and earlier this
>>>> year  it announced plans to exit the consumer electronics market
>>>> altogether. Have any other manufactures demonstrated TV sets with
>>>> talking menus in this country?  I am not aware of any.   We blind
>>>> consumers have been screwed over too many times before, so I see no
>>>> reason to believethat things will be any different this time around.
>>>> Sorry, but I have to tell it like it is.  And if you find my messages
>>>> annoying, simply hit the delete key on your precious Mac.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:34 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] TV with Easily accessible
>>>> AudioDescribedprogramming.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You are wrong, and, frankly, starting to annoy me!!!  In your message,
>>>>> you say, in part:
>>>>>
>>>>> :The idea that accessible set-top boxes and TV's are coming soon
>>>>> thanks to FCC rules adopted a few years ago is sheer fantasy.  It just
>>>>> ain't gonna happen".
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yeah?  Well, you are wrong.   here is proof!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNTL-3fj6HI
>>>>>
>>>>> Your constant negativism is getting on my very last nerve.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the
>>>>> blind built-in!
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>>>> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 7:11 AM, "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This seems to be the Holy Grail of home electronic devices for blind
>>>>>> consumers like us.  I have yet to find a flat panel LcD or plasma TV
>>>>>> that has a dedicated button on the remote control for turning the SAP
>>>>>> channel on and off.  They all require navigating through a bunch of
>>>>>> onscreen menus to accomplish this, which, of course, requires sighted
>>>>>> help.  And if you have cable or satellite TV like most of us, it
>>>>>> doesn't matter whether the TV itself has an easy way to turn SAP on
>>>>>> and off because the SAP channel is sent by the provider and
>>>>>> controlled by the set-top box, which, again requires sighted help to
>>>>>> navigate its onscreen menus.  The idea that accessible set-top boxes
>>>>>> and TV's are coming soon thanks to FCC rules adopted a few years ago
>>>>>> is sheer fantasy.  It just ain't gonna happen.  When I ask the
>>>>>> customer service reps at Time Warner Cable when they will have a
>>>>>> blind accessible cable box available, they just start muttering
>>>>>> huh,and what's that.  So if accessible boxes ever become
>>>>> available , nobody at the cable companies will be aware of them
>>>>> anyway. Such are the travails of being a blind consumer in the 21st
>>>>> century.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Cassell"
>>>>>> <ApolloSeven at Earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 12:47 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [Electronics-talk] TV with Easily accessible Audio
>>>>>> Describedprogramming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am looking for a new TV.  It must have a very easily accessible
>>>>>>> SAP (second audio program) feature for being able to easily access
>>>>>>> audio described programming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does such a thing exist?  If so, what is it, and where can I buy it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can provide!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- George
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/cheez%40cox.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>

-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail