[Electronics-talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: Fwd: RiVO for iPhoneVoiceOver is now available in 20 languages

Antonio Guimaraes freethaught at gmail.com
Thu Aug 28 13:16:50 UTC 2014 

Hi Jim and all,

I don’t know the particulars of why the developer decided we needed a keyboard like this. The person might be easy enough to reach, ad one could ask, instead of speculate.

I think the RIVO is more trouble than it is worth, but it is a cool concept.

Some times thechies do something for that reason alone, ad not to solve a specific problem. I find it interesting that blind people be considered for cool tech projects. I have a problem when we are used for promotional purposes, and engineers start saying how wonderful they, and their products are for helping the blind person. Add to that the poor blind person who can't type fast enough, which we know is far from the case.

I have seen, tested, and been very familiar with a reading ring device developed by a group at the MIT Media Lab. The ring device tries to fill the void in optical character recognition. The people developing it want you and me to wear the ring connected to a computer to read on the fly.

There are several problems with this alone. Who will cary a computer and ring, deal with a wire to read say, a restaurant menu. One might have the menu on her iPhone by the time I can say ring on, and there goes the usefulness of the product.

The biggest problem I see, though, is that the end user was consulted little to not at all during most phases of development. There is one prototype, and the team at the Media Lab presented to the Visually Impaired and Blind Users Group in boston for feedback.

The ring remains no more than a thing that reads some letters, recognizes, them, and puts them together into words spoken by a subpar TTS voice.

The person wearing the ring cannot accurately read three lines of text without major headache. I know this because I personally tried the device. It has a small camera that you have to point at each individual line, and track each line correctly, or you’ll mess up by reading lines above, and below.

I would be very surprised if one could accurately read so far as 60 words a minute with the device.

Blind people were not asked, but told what they needed, and I don’t know how far the ring device will go. It was probably fun to play with for people at the Media Lab, but it has little use for you and me.

I’d rather pack a portable scanner to do anything dealing with accessing documents. Anything else is not worth spending money and resources on.

Maybe I’ll pay $99 for KNFB reader, but only after others take it for a drive beyond convention demos.

I can’t fault engineers to realize we are a big population that needs technology solutions like any other, but it would be best for all if we were a part of the project at all levels.

Antonio

On Aug 26, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Jim Barbour via Electronics-talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Howdy All,
> 
> So, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that blind people won't benefit from the RIVO.  I'm asking why the blind are being singled out at the intended audience for it.
> 
> Plenty of sighted folks have problems with muscle memory, touch screens, ec.
> 
> Take Care,
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 08:39:34AM -0700, Baracco, Andrew W via Electronics-talk wrote:
>> I agree. Different strokes for different folks. I have a friend who is blind, and who seems to lack the spatial concepts and muscle memory to handle the touch screen. The RIVO works for him. It is possible that over time, he could conquer his barriers, but why should he feel compelled to do so just to prove a point, or to make others happy. The blind community is diverse and broad, and what meets the needs of some may not be relevant to others. I have tried the RIVO and it doesn't work for me, but I would never dismiss its existence if it meets the needs of others.
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of George via Electronics-talk
>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:56 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: Fwd: RiVO for iPhoneVoiceOver is now available in 20 languages
>> 
>> Hello Jim,
>> 
>> I think that any person can design a product for us, blind people, and say so.  What's important for us is if that product meets our needs or not. 
>> Each blind person is different, so it might meet the needs of some of us.
>> Unless the keyboard is far from meeting the needs of all of us, denying that that keyboard was designed for blind people might be unfair.
>> 
>> I have tried a small bluetooth keyboard, the same size as an iPhone and, at the beginning I thought it was very helpful.  It was not RIVO.  I don't recall its name now, but it was like a normal keyboard made very small with functions to control VoiceOver and very good documentation.
>> I didn't need to learn any new thing, because I use a normal keyboard all the time, but the keys are so small that I needed to be very careful not to touch the adjacent keys and typing took me a long time (my fingers are big). 
>> I thought I would get accustomed to it.
>> 
>> So reducing the number of keys in RIVO might be of help for people with big fingers, but having to press a key three times to write a character is an old method that I don't want to use anymore.
>> On the other hand, a very small normal keyboard gives the advantage of not having to learn anything to be able to use it (if you use a normal keyboard), but you will need to be very careful to press the right key, particularly if you have big fingers.
>> 
>> The little keyboard I got was very useful to me to understand the iPhone and made me confident.  For example, even now, I can't read my messages character by character on the touch screen and I don't know how to go to a certain position and to correct one character; I could do so very easily with the small keyboard.
>> 
>> In fact, now I don't use that keyboard, because, after I got confident, I started to use the touch screen and somehow got accustomed to it.  It's much comfortable to carry just the iPhone, but I still keep that little keyboard, because I think that I might still need it in some instances.
>> 
>> Some of us might prefer this little keyboard, others might prefer RIVO and others might prefer the touch screen. Others might prefer Siri. I think it's good to have many options, so blind people can enjoy the iPhone in the way they want and change from one method to another until they find the method that's most suitable for them.
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
>> George
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jim Barbour via Electronics-talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Baracco, Andrew W" <Andrew.Baracco at va.gov>; "Discussion of accessible 
>> electronics and appliances" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 6:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: Fwd: RiVO for iPhone 
>> VoiceOver is now available in 20 languages
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Andrew,
>> 
>> I totally get its purpose, I just don't understand why they're saying
>> it was design for blind people.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 02:11:16PM -0700, Baracco, Andrew W via 
>> Electronics-talk wrote:
>>> It's a way to get around having to use the touch screen. One can think of 
>>> it as a kind of remote control.
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Christine Szostak via Electronics-talk
>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:34 PM
>>> To: Jim Barbour; Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Electronics-talk] Fwd: RiVO for iPhone VoiceOver 
>>> is now available in 20 languages
>>> 
>>> Excellent question Jim, I would also be really curious about this. The 
>>> only thing I can think is that they mean  that it works well with VO which 
>>> honestly, the apple Bluetooth keyboard works just fine with VO as well:).
>>> Happy Monday!
>>> Chris
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jim Barbour via Electronics-talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: "Poppa Bear" <heavens4real at gmail.com>; "Discussion of accessible 
>>> electronics and appliances" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Fwd: RiVO for iPhone VoiceOver is now 
>>> available in 20 languages
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All bluetooth keyboards can interact with Apple messaging, including text 
>>> messaging.
>>> 
>>> What I can't really tell is what make the RIVO keyboard different than 
>>> other bluetooth keyboards, and what it means to be a bluetooth keyboard 
>>> designed for the blind?  What special needs do we have around BT 
>>> keyboards?
>>> 
>>> Anybody know?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:13:53AM -0800, Poppa Bear via Electronics-talk
>>> wrote:
>>>> Can this blue tooth keyboard interact with I phone text messaging? In
>>>> the past Apple did not allow their texting program to be accessed via
>>>> Blue Tooth from what I understand. Perhaps I am wrong, and you can
>>>> correct me.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of David Andrews via Electronics-talk
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:59 AM
>>>> To: promotion-technology at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [Electronics-talk] Fwd: RiVO for iPhone VoiceOver is now
>>>> available in 20 languages
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry for the inconvenience, we are trying to reach as many visually
>>>>> challenged people as possible who might have never heard of RiVO for
>>>>> iPhone VoiceOver, which is currently available in 20 language versions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Briefly, RiVO is a portable Bluetooth keyboard about the size of a
>>>>> credit card. Being designed for blind or visually impaired users of
>>>>> iPhone, it supports VoiceOver, text typing and editing, music and
>>>>> audio control. RiVO is a smart keyboard to use iPhone easily quickly
>>>>> and precisely to make the most out of it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Smartphone is an important tool for everyone alike. We wish whoever
>>>>> has difficulty with touchscreen also become good at using smartphone
>>>>> and great apps to find greater possibilities in their lives.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you're interested, try listening to an introductory audio podcast
>>>>> about RiVO English version thanks to one of our customers in
>>>>> Australia at <http://goo.gl/IGAM3q>http://goo.gl/IGAM3q For more
>>>>> information about RiVO, please visit RiVO homepage atÂ
>>>>> <http://mobience.com/rivo>http://mobience.com/rivo
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks. Best wishes, RiVO Team at Mobience
>>>> 
>>>>         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
>>>> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
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