[Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in appliances and devices

Jude DaShiell jdashiel at panix.com
Fri Nov 11 19:07:14 UTC 2016 

that needs to be a real double tap though. other than that and users get 
themselves into all kinds of difficulties and grow to hate touch screen 
technology.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, Christopher Chaltain via Electronics-Talk wrote:

> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 13:56:51
> From: Christopher Chaltain via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: Christopher Chaltain via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in appliances and
>     devices
> 
> I don't understand your point. If I double tap anywhere on the screen, the 
> last object I heard VoiceOver read, will be acted on just as if a sighted 
> user had touched that object without using VoiceOver. Double tapping on the 
> screen does not activate another control, and it does not activate the 
> control anywhere near where you're touching.
>
> On 11/11/16 12:10, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>> Anywhere on the screen that is not another control.  Hit another control
>> and that new control gets selected.
>> 
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, Christopher Chaltain via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>> 
>>> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:51:16
>>> From: Christopher Chaltain via Electronics-Talk
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>>>     <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in appliances and
>>>     devices
>>> 
>>> If we're talking about the touch screen on a smart phone, you don't
>>> always need your finger in the exact location. On the iPhone for
>>> example, you could do a two finger swipe up to have VoiceOver start
>>> reading from the top of the screen. You could then flick left or right
>>> until you hear the object you're looking for, such as the Mail icon.
>>> You could then double tap anywhere on the screen to launch the Mail
>>> app. You could do all of these gestures anywhere on the screen.
>>> 
>>> On 10/11/16 19:12, Donald Moore via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>>> Arlene, it's really not surprising.  For the totals who can do it, and I
>>>> know there are a whole bunch that can, you have to have allot of
>>>> stuff come
>>>> together well.  Your finger in the exact location and the speech
>>>> actually
>>>> telling you that that touch registered for starters.  Some phones can be
>>>> affixed with braille numbers or letters and such, but for ease, the
>>>> buttons
>>>> like our old Havens really can't be beat.  And, I have the iPhone
>>>> 6plus, but
>>>> it's not always easy and it's generally easier to let Siri do as much
>>>> of the
>>>> work as possible.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Arlene via Electronics-Talk
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:34 PM
>>>> To: S L Johnson; Discussion of accessible home electronics and
>>>> appliances
>>>> Cc: Arlene
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in appliances
>>>> and
>>>> devices
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not opposed to the touch screen technology, and as much as I've
>>>> tried
>>>> with the modo g  phone, I'm not getting the knack of it. That's one
>>>> way to
>>>> say it. Of course I don't have the phone connected right now though
>>>> I'm not
>>>> giving up on it. I've listened to podcasts for touch screen phones
>>>> and I was
>>>> 
>>>> on the android list for a period of time, but so far as stupid as it
>>>> might
>>>> sound to those of you that haveieither or both the i phone or
>>>> android, that
>>>> 
>>>> are accomplished in navigating and can use the touch screen. About
>>>> the best
>>>> way to explain it, so far anyway,  I'm not getting the feel for it yet,
>>>> though I really hope tooeventually, and it's not because I don't want
>>>> to get
>>>> 
>>>> into using a touch screen. That's part of the key, for me anyway, not
>>>> yet
>>>> have I've gotten the touch of working the touch screen with ease as many
>>>> people do, and as much as I want too. There's aspects and features of
>>>> what
>>>> you can do with both the i-phones and the androids which I know I
>>>> could do
>>>> right now, if I only had the knack of it including the  valuable and
>>>> important and access to different bits of information and so on. While
>>>> there's an app for everything, an app here, and an app there,
>>>> everywhere an
>>>> app, app, it seems like everyone in the whole world has a smart
>>>> phone. It's
>>>> true a majority of people that have cell phones do have smart phones
>>>> which
>>>> is really great. It's also true not everyone as one, as mentioned for
>>>> not
>>>> having the funds to buy a smart phone, and some of it, there's a
>>>> number of
>>>> individuals are doing there best to attempt to get the right touch or
>>>> knack
>>>> to even navigate and work a touch screen. So really it's not out of a
>>>> case
>>>> that there's necessarily groups of people that don't want to move
>>>> along to a
>>>> 
>>>> touch screen and or smart phone. There may be some that will never get a
>>>> smart phone, not being a priority for them personally as crazy and
>>>> stupid as
>>>> 
>>>> it might sound. For some people, change and new things aren't always
>>>> embraced immediately, and in time whatever the new thing is found not
>>>> to be
>>>> so complicated or a bad thing. I don't know what all the right
>>>> answers are,
>>>> but as others have said there should bea some way to make appliances and
>>>> other machines  accessible for anyone to use, even if it's a mix of
>>>> the old
>>>> and new technology. The stoves we looked at for example, were fine in
>>>> the
>>>> way that for the oven to set the temperature it would beep as you set
>>>> the
>>>> temperature and as you set it on either bake, and or broil and so on. If
>>>> you're setting the temperature and you loose track you could always
>>>> turn it
>>>> off and do it again. To me anyway, with newer technology it's acceptable
>>>> where this type of stove is concerned. The stove top was very much
>>>> like an
>>>> older stove from what I remember which was good. As far as the
>>>> affordability
>>>> 
>>>> of the smart phones and defending that aspect, for android anyway,
>>>> The modo
>>>> g and probably some other models of android phones are pretty
>>>> inexpensive
>>>> compared to what an i  phone and other android phones cost. I'm not an
>>>> expert on all the prices, but the modo g was $170, and I purchased it
>>>> from
>>>> walmart as a prepaid phone on family mobile which is the walmart
>>>> phone that
>>>> is on the t-mobile lines. I think what would help me in getting use
>>>> to my
>>>> modo g is to find a friend nearby that's experienced with touch
>>>> screens that
>>>> 
>>>> can sit with me as I navigate the screen. They  could help me and
>>>> instruct
>>>> me with whatever my simple attempts are, pointing out what I'm doing
>>>> wrong
>>>> and they could show me how to have the right touch for it. It's
>>>> something I
>>>> will do as I find someone. I do have some friends in mind. I first
>>>> really
>>>> wanted to see what I could figure out on my own. One time a sales guy
>>>> from a
>>>> 
>>>> t and t store, spent 45 minutes with me in the store showing me his i
>>>> phone,
>>>> 
>>>> turning voice over on for me, and letting me explore the screen, as
>>>> he was
>>>> explaining things to me. It was such a great experience. At the time my
>>>> friend and I each purchased the t-199 samsung feature phone, she
>>>> purchased a
>>>> 
>>>> tablet. now I wished I asked her to put talkback on for me,  at least
>>>> some
>>>> of the time, because, while she didn't need talkback, she would have
>>>> helped
>>>> me in getting use too it. We have that sort of friendship where we enjoy
>>>> working on things together. We both only knew about talkback from
>>>> another
>>>> friend of ours. Our other friend familiarized herself with talk back
>>>> on her
>>>> s3 due to having tumors in her eyes in case she did loose her vision,
>>>> and we
>>>> 
>>>> all could have worked on that. As I said The 3 of us had that sort of
>>>> friendship. Even starting with the gusto 2 and then when we got the
>>>> gusto 3
>>>> and then when we got the t-199 for t-mobile we worked on a lot of things
>>>> with one another. In fact when we each purchased the t-199, we didn't
>>>> know
>>>> that it had speech built into it. We did find out a day later when
>>>> one of
>>>> my friends was exploring the screen and all the menues. I'm sure I
>>>> can find
>>>> someone where I am now, since we both moved away from that apartment
>>>> building. So it's not always because people don't want to know,don't
>>>> have
>>>> the desire to learn touch screens, and yes some are somewhat
>>>> affordable. At
>>>> times you just need to save up for important things. Even the modo g
>>>> at $170
>>>> 
>>>> may be to much of an expense of an item to buy in one month. If it's
>>>> that
>>>> important even to buy, the best thing to do is save up for it.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "S L Johnson via Electronics-Talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "S L Johnson" <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in appliances
>>>> and
>>>> devices
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Jim:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Okay, the smart phone may be one way to have access but, manufacturers
>>>>> still should make heir appliances accessible.  Not every blind or
>>>>> visually
>>>> 
>>>>> impaired person, especially aging seniors, can afford a smart
>>>>> phone.  Also
>>>> 
>>>>> many seniors are not comfortable with the new touch screen technology.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sandra Johnson
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 9:41 AM
>>>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>>>> Cc: Jim McCarthy
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in
>>>>> appliances and
>>>>> devices
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sandra,
>>>>> The smart phone providing access to appliances actually might prove
>>>>> helpful to you given what you describe. That is if you had access to a
>>>>> qwerty keyboard or braille display. The majority of touch screen
>>>>> gestures
>>>>> and methods do have keyboard equivalents. I agree with Dave that smart
>>>>> phone access to appliances would be one more access tool and it also
>>>>> seems
>>>> 
>>>>> one that the appliance manufacture community might pursue.
>>>>> Jim McCarthy
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Sandra Streeter via Electronics-Talk
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 9:46 PM
>>>>> To: electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Cc: Sandra Streeter
>>>>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] future of accessibility in appliances and
>>>>> devices
>>>>> 
>>>>> All in for a range of solutions! I, for one, have had a devil of a time
>>>>> mastering any touch-screen device (except my microwave), because
>>>>> I??Tm a
>>>>> lousy auditory learner who needs both Braille and practice to master
>>>>> even
>>>>> a smartphone, and because I have some fine-motor issues that make it
>>>>> harder to ensure that I??Tm, say, double-tapping something instead of
>>>>> tapping once and accidentally moving my finger without knowing it, then
>>>>> attempting the second half of the gesture (in the new place I wasn??Tt
>>>>> aware I was in). Those of us who are still button-pushers, and don??Tt
>>>>> want to use touch screens or to talk to a device, are left out in the
>>>>> cold. . Smartphones would not be an option for me. Besides which,
>>>>> say the
>>>>> Internet part of the grid (but not all electronic areas) went
>>>>> down??"getting our phones to talk to our devices so we can set them
>>>>> properly might be a major issue. And, I am totally in agreement that we
>>>>> need to be better advocates for ourselves, instead of waiting for a
>>>>> politician or governmental system to finally see/do something about our
>>>>> needs. Not all de-regulation is a bad thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sandra
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not ??oRevelation????? ??" tis ??" that waits
>>>>> But our unfurnished eyes ??"
>>>>> (Emily Dickinson)
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---
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>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>
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