[Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is Lost

Tue Oct 25 18:38:25 UTC 2016

Well, last May, I needed a new toaster-oven, and my nearby Target had a 
Black & Decker model on sale that I was interested in.  But when my lady 
friend and I got to the store, even the salesman we asked couldn't find it 
on display.  He disappeared into the stock room and returned with one about 
ten minutes later, but insisted that he could not open the factory-sealed 
carton so that I could inspect it.  But because I had researched this model 
extensively online, I already knew pretty much what to expect, and so I 
bought it sight unseen.  Fortunately, it has worked out well.  Any time I 
visit this store and need help finding a product, I usually have to wander 
up and down the aisles with my sighted guide to find a salesperson.  If this 
store has a guest center, it must be a deep dark secret that even their 
sales staff doesn't know about.

Gerald

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tina Sohl via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:18 PM
To: electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: Tina Sohl
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is Lost

We can say the same for target and best buy. both places have been
willing to show us proeucts so we can decide if they'll work. office
depot as well
Original message:
> Same here.  We've gotten fantastic help at the Target Guest Center.  Now I 
> realize that does not mean every Target will have the same level of 
> service.  But ours has been an overall great experience.

> Shannon Cook, MSW, CPM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jude DaShiell via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:21 AM
> To: Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
> steve.jacobson at visi.com
> Cc: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is Lost

> Every Target I have been in has a Guest Center.  When I've needed help, I 
> used the services in the Guest Center and had no such problem as you 
> described.

> On Tue, 25 Oct 2016, Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk wrote:

>> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:12:45
>> From: Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: steve.jacobson at visi.com,
>>     Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>>     <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Gerald Levy <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is
>> Lost

>> Okay, here's the bottom line.  There are very few, if any,  stores
>> that will demonstrate microwave ovens for you.  Certainly not Best Buy
>> or Home Depot or Lowe's or WalMart or Target.  In many cases, they
>> don't even have units on display.  They are simply stacked up on the
>> sales floor in their original cartons, and in most cases, a sales
>> person won't even take a unit  out of the box so that you can at least
>> feel the touchpad and get some idea of whether it could be made
>> accessible with tactile markers.  And actually plugging it in to
>> demonstrate it?  If you ask a salesperson to do this, they'll just
>> laugh you out of the store. Big box retailers are only interested in
>> maximizing sales, not personalized attention.  And good luck finding a
>> salesperson in the first place.  Certainly not at my local Target,
>> where you are basically on your own.  They have maybe two or three
>> microwave ovens on display.  The rest are simply piled up in their 
>> original cartons ready to be picked up and schlepped to the check-out 
>> counter.

>> Gerald

>> -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:16 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Steve Jacobson
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is
>> Lost

>> Jim and Annette,

>> If this is the issue, I apologize for appearing to pile on, so to
>> speak.  I didn't see this described in the most recent note, though,
>> and the subject got my attention.

>> For the very little it is worth, the overhead microwaves don't seem to
>> be substantially different in their controls from what I've seen, but
>> checking for certain if the buttons are activated by pressure would
>> certainly be reasonable.  One approach I would take if confronted with
>> the same thing is to contact the manufacturer as they may be able to
>> answer questions.  I would also explain that they are being called
>> because the seller would not even permit plugging the unit in.

>> Best regards,

>> Steve Jacobson

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 4:33 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jim McCarthy <jmccarthy at mdtap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is
>> Lost

>> Peter,
>> I do not think Annette has an issue with doing some labeling. She has
>> posted several items on this thread over the last couple weeks. She
>> wants or needs a particular kind of microwave, one that mounts above
>> the range and includes an exhaust fan. She has found appliance sellers
>> unwilling to plug in possible items in order that she can test them to
>> be sure that she buys something that she can make accessible to her.
>> There are coming to be classes of home appliances that are becoming
>> impossible of being made accessible, though I cannot say that
>> microwaves have arrived in that category of device yet. When we say
>> that all it takes is to add braille labels as we have done forever,
>> that assumes that the controls require some pressure to activate. If
>> they can be activated by proximity of the finger to the control, a
>> blind user will need to get quite good at knowing the layout of her unit. 
>> Some may be able to do this, but many of us will not, I think.
>> It is my opinion that the present legal landscape would not protect
>> blind purchasers of appliances for finding that there are none in a
>> category that they can use. I am not certain of the best answer but am
>> definitely troubled by the possibility that someday I will want an
>> oven and be able to find none me and my blind wife and cook can use.
>> Best
>> Jim McCarthy

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 5:13 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Peter Donahue
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Accessible Micro Waves, the Battle is
>> Lost

>> Good afternoon Anet and everyone,

>>    This is easier to solve than you seem to believe. It's just a
>> matter of labeling the touchPad with Braille labels. We faced the same
>> challenge when we got our latest microwave and moved into our current
>> apartment. The oven controlls were inaccessible. We made Braille
>> labels and placed them on the control pad in the appropriate places
>> and can now use it independently. Have you explored the possibility of
>> buying a microwave or other appliance that can be controlled by an App on 
>> your iDevice or Androide Device?

>> Peter Donahue

>> Annette Carr via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>> Hi All,

>>> Well I am at a dead-end when it comes to finding an accessible over
>>> the range microwave.  They just do not exist.  We are left with no
>>> option but to purchase one that I cannot use as we need the exhaust.
>>> We cannot just replace the microwave with a traditional exhaust hood
>>> as we would have to replace the cabinet above the range to position
>>> the hood at the required height.  Well, that is not going to happen
>>> since it is not possible to match a new cabinets to the existing 
>>> cabinets.

>>> The appliance manufacturers think that making an appliance ADA
>>> accessible requires them to only meet physical access requirements.
>>> Access for the blind is not even a consideration.  It is just a
>>> matter of time before access to all appliances are out of our reach.

>>> Annette

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