[Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of appliances?

Gerald Levy bwaylimited at verizon.net
Mon Oct 31 15:46:05 UTC 2016


I also live in an apartment building that uses an inaccessible laundry card 
system to activate the washers and dryers in the laundry room.  There is no 
way I can do the laundry myself, and must rely on my sighted ladyfriend for 
help.  This was not a problem years ago when the machines still had 
mechanical controls and accepted coins to activate them.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 10:40 AM
To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
Cc: Jim McCarthy
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
appliances?

Gerald,
I think Dave asked about this as a matter for discussion. There are getting 
to be more affordable Android phones so perhaps cost is not as much of a 
disincentive as you suggest. I do agree that access should not be contingent 
on a person's ability to purchase a $400 or more device but there is also 
the Amazon Echo stepping in to this space some and whatever the solution 
looks like, we may want multiple means of access to seek and give as much 
access to as many people with disabilities as we can. This may help develop 
a consensus or coalition of support. In my opinion Dave is right that we 
have made less progress than in some other areas because this issue has not 
quite seemed high enough on the priority list. I think that most of us have 
believed that if we use our best efforts, we would find an accessible 
appliance for that stove, oven, microwave, washer/drier or dishwasher we 
need to replace. In my opinion, most of us have so far, even if not the 
exact device we really wanted, but nothing in the legal landscape assures we 
will forever. There will be the other issue that renters may more and more 
rent places and learn that they can't use the appliances.

A few weeks ago, I saw a post from someone on my facebook feed. She lives in 
a high rise in the DC area. She wrote expressing concern that she has a 
purchase card for laundry, kind of like a fair card; she is unable to add 
value to the card or check existing value on the card; it appeared from the 
discussion that there was no one in the building management or that she did 
not feel comfortable reaching out to such folks to add value or to check 
value. She received a response from another blind person living in the same 
unit who stated that, though she was aware of this challenge, her husband 
took care of this. That is what I think most of us would do if an option in 
the same circumstances but we should not half too. I know of the NFB's 
efforts on this topic as for a while, I played a part in those. I also know 
other blindness orgs have made some efforts in this area but all of these 
efforts have been episodic at best. Dave is right that this just has not 
seemed as priority as some other issues we face. The solution, whatever it 
proves to be, is not and will not be an easy one. We as a society are 
loathed to regulate our technology industries. They have done a very good 
job of arguing that regulation will restrict their ability to innovate and 
innovation is what they do best. I do not think though that these industries 
will decide to create accessible appliances without a legal framework that 
requires them to do so. This is a topic of profound personal interest to me 
as there are no sighted people in our house. We are both willing to label, 
use dots, write notes, use voice memos read by friends we employ to do so 
and so forth. We are fortunate that cost would not be a barrier for me and 
my wife; nevertheless, if there are categories of household appliances that 
are completely inaccessible, that is just the way of things right now.
Jim McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:08 PM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
Cc: Gerald Levy
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
appliances?


No, controlling appliances via a smart phone is not a viable solution 
because most blind consumers do not own them.  Smart phones are too 
expensive for the majority of blind consumers who live on fixed incomes, and 
they have their own accessibility issues such as difficult to navigate touch 
screens.  It is unreasonable to expect a blind consumer to purchase an 
expensive smart phone, download the appropriate apps (a procedure which 
itself may or may not be accessible)  and learn how to operate it just to 
turn on and adjust his microwave or stove or dishwasher.  Besides, many 
blind consumers may have other physical limitations that make using a smart 
phone difficult to impossible.  Accessibility must be built into the 
appliances themselves.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: David Andrews via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 2:15 PM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
Cc: David Andrews
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
appliances?

There is one other variable, which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. 
It can be good, or bad, or both.

We are seeing more and more devices that are controllable by smart phone 
apps, either iOS or Android.  The problems are, you have to have a device 
that will run the right software, and that software must, itself, be 
accessible. Given both of these things, it offers another approach to 
accessibility.

Back in the early to mid 90's, at one of the U.S./Canada joint conferences 
on technology, I wrote and presented a paper calling on industry to develop 
standards for operating a device, and development of a universal remote 
controller.  With phones, and various home automation standards, we have 
pieces of this, and hopefully we can take it further, and make it work for 
us.
\
Dave

At 12:59 PM 10/30/2016, you wrote:
>Here are my thoughts. 1.  Appliance manufacturers don’t have any idea
>what we want. 2.  Even if they did, they couldn’t care less and whine
>it’s to expensive to make something we can use. 3.  Only way to turn
>this around is to sue every damn one of them in a class action because
>otherwise, they just will never ever change. All the talk in the world
>about publicity efforts will do no good at all because views against
>the blind in society in general are getting worse, not better.  Fact
>is, we’re starting to move backwards and we may have more and more of
>a problem the longer we wait. Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with
>full accessibility for the blind built-in Sincerely, The Constantly
>Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac,
>Verizon Wireless iPhone7+ and Apple TV user! > On Oct 30, 2016, at 8:51
>AM, Brad Hodges via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>wrote: > >
>Colleagues: > > > As some of you long-time Federationists may recall, a
>number of years > ago I had the privilege of working at our National
>Center. One of the > areas of research and advocacy I undertook was to
>begin the exploration > of the state of appliance accessibility. I also
>was pleased to have had > several articles published in the Braille 
>Monitor.
>Entitled "Crisis For > The Blind at the Big Box Store" they summarized
>our understanding of the > issues and technology of the time. > > >
>Fast forward more than a decade and I find myself prowling the isles of
>> big box stores and other appliance departments once again. This time
>as > a member who has an abiding interest in this topic. I intend to >
>collaborate with the Technology Team at the Jernigan Institute, to once
>> again publish a comprehensive survey of the appliance accessibility >
>landscape. > > > To make a very long story short, most of what we
>observed in the early > 2000's still applies. So, what has changed? Why
>are things considerably > more difficult now than they were in 2004? Is
>it time to establish > standards for accessibility? Is government
>intervention necessary? Have > our expectations for accessibility
>changed? > > > In posing these questions I'm hoping to expand our scope
>of exploration > and to consider additional forces and factors which
>contribute to the > bedeviling time we all have in finding a microwave
>oven or washing > machine which we can use. > > > Yes, I'm getting to the 
>topic you expected after reading the message > header.
>Yesterday I was shopping at my local JCPenney store. Low and > behold,
>what did I find on the second floor but a very well merchandised >
>display of major appliances from LG, Samsung and GE. Of particular >
>interest was how unfamiliar many of the models were. I have been >
>tracking availability at Lowes, Home Depot and Sears for many years. It
>> struck me, as I explored a GE front loading laundry pare, which look
>> quite usable that something which a mgr at Home Depot shared. The
>floor > space for appliance display in the big box store is rented by
>each > manufacturer. Thus the choice of which models are available for
>public > preview is controlled exclusively by those manufacturers. > >
>> Do you suppose that one of the issues which contributes to the state
>of > affairs is a re tale experience which only includes a sampling of
>less > accessible or manageable products? Since I believe it to be the
>case > that relatively few models in any manufacturers lines is really
>usable, > the chances of those models not showing up in the display
>space is > perhaps quite high. > > > In addition to the GE laundry
>machines, I found an LG electric range > with beautiful burner turn
>knobs on the front, and a back panel which > would appear to lend
>itself very nicely to tactile markings. Several > over-the-range
>microwaves looked promising, again to be used with > tactile
>indicators. A Samsung dishwasher with 5 easy to feel buttons > also
>intrigued. > > > I'll return to JCPenney, this time with a camera, an
>extension cord, and > my husband to lend a hand and a pare of eyes. > >
>> Hope I haven't run to long here, but there was a qualitative aspect
>of > the overall experience which I found encouraging. I also trust
>that as > we progress in collecting our findings and thoughts for a new
>Monitor > article that the collective experience of this group will
>help inform > the conversation. > > > Brad Hodges > > Huntington WV > >
>> >


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