[Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of appliances?

[Andy Baracco]

Do you think we would get a better deal from Mr. Trump?
Andy


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Freeman via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 10:02 AM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
Cc: Mike Freeman
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
appliances?

All:

While I agree with you that both NFB and ACB have perhaps not play 
sufficient priority on appliance axis, I believe that we must also bear in 
mind which party has been in power and what attitude that party has toward 
regulation of business by government.

In other words, it ain't that simple.

Mike Freeman


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 31, 2016, at 7:40 AM, Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk 
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Gerald,
> I think Dave asked about this as a matter for discussion. There are 
> getting to be more affordable Android phones so perhaps cost is not as 
> much of a disincentive as you suggest. I do agree that access should not 
> be contingent on a person's ability to purchase a $400 or more device but 
> there is also the Amazon Echo stepping in to this space some and whatever 
> the solution looks like, we may want multiple means of access to seek and 
> give as much access to as many people with disabilities as we can. This 
> may help develop a consensus or coalition of support. In my opinion Dave 
> is right that we have made less progress than in some other areas because 
> this issue has not quite seemed high enough on the priority list. I think 
> that most of us have believed that if we use our best efforts, we would 
> find an accessible appliance for that stove, oven, microwave, washer/drier 
> or dishwasher we need to replace. In my opinion, most of us have so far, 
> even if not the exact device we really wanted, but nothing in the legal 
> landscape assures we will forever. There will be the other issue that 
> renters may more and more rent places and learn that they can't use the 
> appliances.
>
> A few weeks ago, I saw a post from someone on my facebook feed. She lives 
> in a high rise in the DC area. She wrote expressing concern that she has a 
> purchase card for laundry, kind of like a fair card; she is unable to add 
> value to the card or check existing value on the card; it appeared from 
> the discussion that there was no one in the building management or that 
> she did not feel comfortable reaching out to such folks to add value or to 
> check value. She received a response from another blind person living in 
> the same unit who stated that, though she was aware of this challenge, her 
> husband took care of this. That is what I think most of us would do if an 
> option in the same circumstances but we should not half too. I know of the 
> NFB's efforts on this topic as for a while, I played a part in those. I 
> also know other blindness orgs have made some efforts in this area but all 
> of these efforts have been episodic at best. Dave is right that this just 
> has not seemed as priority as some other issues we face. The solution, 
> whatever it proves to be, is not and will not be an easy one. We asGerald,
> I think Dave asked about this as a matter for discussion. There are 
> getting to be more affordable Android phones so perhaps cost is not as 
> much of a disincentive as you suggest. I do agree that access should not 
> be contingent on a person's ability to purchase a $400 or more device but 
> there is also the Amazon Echo stepping in to this space some and whatever 
> the solution looks like, we may want multiple means of access to seek and 
> give as much access to as many people with disabilities as we can. This 
> may help develop a consensus or coalition of support. In my opinion Dave 
> is right that we have made less progress than in some other areas because 
> this issue has not quite seemed high enough on the priority list. I think 
> that most of us have believed that if we use our best efforts, we would 
> find an accessible appliance for that stove, oven, microwave, washer/drier 
> or dishwasher we need to replace. In my opinion, most of us have so far, 
> even if not the exact device we really wanted, but nothing in the legal 
> landscape assures we will forever. There will be the other issue that 
> renters may more and more rent places and learn that they can't use the 
> appliances.
>
> A few weeks ago, I saw a post from someone on my facebook feed. She lives 
> in a high rise in the DC area. She wrote expressing concern that she has a 
> purchase card for laundry, kind of like a fair card; she is unable to add 
> value to the card or check existing value on the card; it appeared from 
> the discussion that there was no one in the building management or that 
> she did not feel comfortable reaching out to such folks to add value or to 
> check value. She received a response from another blind person living in 
> the same unit who stated that, though she was aware of this challenge, her 
> husband took care of this. That is what I think most of us would do if an 
> option in the same circumstances but we should not half too. I know of the 
> NFB's efforts on this topic as for a while, I played a part in those. I 
> also know other blindness orgs have made some efforts in this area but all 
> of these efforts have been episodic at best. Dave is right that this just 
> has not seemed as priority as some other issues we face. The solution, 
> whatever it proves to be, is not and will not be an easy one. We as a 
> society are loathed to regulate our technology industries. They have done 
> a very good job of arguing that regulation will restrict their ability to 
> innovate and innovation is what they do best. I do not think though that 
> these industries will decide to create accessible appliances without a 
> legal framework that requires them to do so. This is a topic of profound 
> personal interest to me as there are no sighted people in our house. We 
> are both willing to label, use dots, write notes, use voice memos read by 
> friends we employ to do so and so forth. We are fortunate that cost would 
> not be a barrier for me and my wife; nevertheless, if there are categories 
> of household appliances that are completely inaccessible, that is just the 
> way of things right now.
> Jim McCarthy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:08 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: Gerald Levy
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
> appliances?
>
>
> No, controlling appliances via a smart phone is not a viable solution 
> because most blind consumers do not own them.  Smart phones are too 
> expensive for the majority of blind consumers who live on fixed incomes, 
> and they have their own accessibility issues such as difficult to navigate 
> touch screens.  It is unreasonable to expect a blind consumer to purchase 
> an expensive smart phone, download the appropriate apps (a procedure which 
> itself may or may not be accessible)  and learn how to operate it just to 
> turn on and adjust his microwave or stove or dishwasher.  Besides, many 
> blind consumers may have other physical limitations that make using a 
> smart phone difficult to impossible.  Accessibility must be built into the 
> appliances themselves.
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Andrews via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 2:15 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: David Andrews
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
> appliances?
>
> There is one other variable, which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. 
> It can be good, or bad, or both.
>
> We are seeing more and more devices that are controllable by smart phone 
> apps, either iOS or Android.  The problems are, you have to have a device 
> that will run the right software, and that software must, itself, be 
> accessible. Given both of these things, it offers another approach to 
> accessibility.
>
> Back in the early to mid 90's, at one of the U.S./Canada joint conferences 
> on technology, I wrote and presented a paper calling on industry to 
> develop standards for operating a device, and development of a universal 
> remote controller.  With phones, and various home automation standards, we 
> have pieces of this, and hopefully we can take it further, and make it 
> work for us.
> \
> Dave
>
> At 12:59 PM 10/30/2016, you wrote:
>> Here are my thoughts. 1.  Appliance manufacturers don’t have any idea
>> what we want. 2.  Even if they did, they couldn’t care less and whine
>> it’s to expensive to make something we can use. 3.  Only way to turn
>> this around is to sue every damn one of them in a class action because
>> otherwise, they just will never ever change. All the talk in the world
>> about publicity efforts will do no good at all because views against
>> the blind in society in general are getting worse, not better.  Fact
>> is, we’re starting to move backwards and we may have more and more of
>> a problem the longer we wait. Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with
>> full accessibility for the blind built-in Sincerely, The Constantly
>> Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac,
>> Verizon Wireless iPhone7+ and Apple TV user! > On Oct 30, 2016, at 8:51
>> AM, Brad Hodges via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote: > >
>> Colleagues: > > > As some of you long-time Federationists may recall, a
>> number of years > ago I had the privilege of working at our National
>> Center. One of the > areas of research and advocacy I undertook was to
>> begin the exploration > of the state of appliance accessibility. I also
>> was pleased to have had > several articles published in the Braille 
>> Monitor.
>> Entitled "Crisis For > The Blind at the Big Box Store" they summarized
>> our understanding of the > issues and technology of the time. > > >
>> Fast forward more than a decade and I find myself prowling the isles of
>>> big box stores and other appliance departments once again. This time
>> as > a member who has an abiding interest in this topic. I intend to >
>> collaborate with the Technology Team at the Jernigan Institute, to once
>>> again publish a comprehensive survey of the appliance accessibility >
>> landscape. > > > To make a very long story short, most of what we
>> observed in the early > 2000's still applies. So, what has changed? Why
>> are things considerably > more difficult now than they were in 2004? Is
>> it time to establish > standards for accessibility? Is government
>> intervention necessary? Have > our expectations for accessibility
>> changed? > > > In posing these questions I'm hoping to expand our scope
>> of exploration > and to consider additional forces and factors which
>> contribute to the > bedeviling time we all have in finding a microwave
>> oven or washing > machine which we can use. > > > Yes, I'm getting to the 
>> topic you expected after reading the message > header.
>> Yesterday I was shopping at my local JCPenney store. Low and > behold,
>> what did I find on the second floor but a very well merchandised >
>> display of major appliances from LG, Samsung and GE. Of particular >
>> interest was how unfamiliar many of the models were. I have been >
>> tracking availability at Lowes, Home Depot and Sears for many years. It
>>> struck me, as I explored a GE front loading laundry pare, which look
>>> quite usable that something which a mgr at Home Depot shared. The
>> floor > space for appliance display in the big box store is rented by
>> each > manufacturer. Thus the choice of which models are available for
>> public > preview is controlled exclusively by those manufacturers. > >
>>> Do you suppose that one of the issues which contributes to the state
>> of > affairs is a re tale experience which only includes a sampling of
>> less > accessible or manageable products? Since I believe it to be the
>> case > that relatively few models in any manufacturers lines is really
>> usable, > the chances of those models not showing up in the display
>> space is > perhaps quite high. > > > In addition to the GE laundry
>> machines, I found an LG electric range > with beautiful burner turn
>> knobs on the front, and a back panel which > would appear to lend
>> itself very nicely to tactile markings. Several > over-the-range
>> microwaves looked promising, again to be used with > tactile
>> indicators. A Samsung dishwasher with 5 easy to feel buttons > also
>> intrigued. > > > I'll return to JCPenney, this time with a camera, an
>> extension cord, and > my husband to lend a hand and a pare of eyes. > >
>>> Hope I haven't run to long here, but there was a qualitative aspect
>> of > the overall experience which I found encouraging. I also trust
>> that as > we progress in collecting our findings and thoughts for a new
>> Monitor > article that the collective experience of this group will
>> help inform > the conversation. > > > Brad Hodges > > Huntington WV > >
>>>>
>
>
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