[Electronics-Talk] Where Are We Now?, Income Generation

Fri Dec 22 23:29:27 UTC 2017

Well done!

Yes, apparently some people don't see the difference in what you
described and begging but the first thing which is very obvious is
that beggars give you nothing in return while a musician whether a
street one or not provides you at least a song for your contribution.
I guess in some people's eyes though a piano player in a bar with a
tip jar is also begging...

in my eyes if you can express yourself with an instrument and perform
well, there's nothing wrong with it at all.

Regards,

Laz

On 12/22/17, Peter Donahue via Electronics-Talk
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> 	I wasn't going to jump into this thread but since my name was mentionedI'll
> bring everyone up-to-date on where we are now and share thoughts on income
> diversification.
>
> 	First Mary and I found ourselves drawing away from the federation beginning
> in 2011. It began when we found ourselves no longer able to work with
> members in Texas and elsewhere. We did not renew our membership after 2013.
> An attempt to expel me in 2014 was made but since both of our memberships
> were no longer valid you can't very well expel someone who already left the
> organization on their own can you? I let Dr. Maurer and  President Riccobono
> know on no uncertain terms that such action was illegal and that the
> organization needs to better track the status of members to avoid charges
> being filed against it due to such careless action being taken by an
> affiliate. Enough of that!
>
> 	One of our major concerns has surfaced in some of the previous messages
> concerning raising funds so blind individuals can address their needs as an
> alternative to the vocational rehabilitation program. I worked as a street
> musician in Boston and in Austin Texas from December of 1979 to August of
> 1983. Back then I heard the same garbage from blind people who themselves
> didn't have the guts to find ways to meet their needs try to slam the
> efforts of one of their own to do the same. Busking is heavily promoted in
> San Antonio. An effort is being made to recruit buskers for our new year's
> eve celebration in the downtown area. They don't care if you're blind or
> sighted. If you have a talent and wish to participate in busking in our city
> as long as you follow the rules of the game you're perfectly free to do so.
> That should be the beginning and the end of the story right there!
>
> 	Another issue we've seen is the unwillingness among the blind to
> investigate various income-producing vehicles the newest of these is
> Crowdfunding. I know of a blind person on another list that recently
> launched a crowdfunding site to raise funds to buy a new computer and
> assistive technology. If successful this guy will be able to skip the rehab
> mess and get on with his education and eventual employment. More of us must
> do the same.
>
> 	We encouraged a number of blind individuals to explore professional
> networking as another way to raise funds for blindness-related and quality
> of life matters only to have our invitation declined. Some of these same
> individuals then criticized blind persons we know for engaging in such
> activities as busking. We already put members of our blind community,
> especially those we invited to explore other income-producing vehicles,  on
> notice that if they attack our efforts and those of other blind people to
> raise funding to address blindness-related needs or to enhance our quality
> of life without offering another income producing option they're walking on
> our fighting side and would do well not to go there.
>
> 	Both of us personally witnessed at a number of national conventions members
> of various NFB Affiliates slam-dunk such income-producing vehicles as
> network marketing, street performing, and most recently crowdfunding. The
> individual who objected to this form of fundraising just referred to as
> another form of begging but failed to suggest an alternative. We like much
> of the work the federation is doing but will not tollerate any organization
> or its members whose actions stifle and destroy the drive and the wish to
> utilize all methods of income creation to address funding for personal and
> blindness-related issues by its members and other blindpersons.
>
> 	There are some blind folks that have suggested the creation of a new
> organization built on the NFB philosophy but one that urges its members to
> pursue various means of income creation and stresses that a part of that
> philosophy is the belief that at the end of the day the individual is in
> charge and must take actions to fulfill their dreams and goals for their
> lives. Perhaps with a shift in income creation by blind individuals the need
> for such an organization will be unnecessary.
>
> 	Now you know where we've been. I only posted this since my name was
> specifically mentioned and want to do myt busting while I was at it. Have a
> very merry Christmas everyone.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ronald Smith via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:27 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: Ronald Smith
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired people,
> There Are Ways To Fund It
>
> David,
>
> Peter Donahue was a Federationist 20 years ago.
> I don't know about today; maybe he left or was kicked out...
>
> ronsmith131 at gmail.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired people,
> There Are Ways To Fund It
>
>
>> If busking is a way for sighted musicians to earn some money, why is
>> it unacceptable for a blind musician to do the same?  I know it might
>> look like begging, but it looks to me like a double standard to say
>> it's OK for sighted folks, but horrible for blind folks to do the exact
>> same thing.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Andrews, David B (DEED) via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 8:33 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Andrews, David B (DEED)
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired
>> people, There Are Ways To Fund It
>>
>> How do you know he is a Federationist ... I will say no more.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer Minnesota Department of
>> Employment and Economic Development State Services for the Blind
>> 2200 University Ave West, Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
>> Direct: 651-539-2294
>> Web | Twitter | Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:20 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Gerald Levy <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired
>> people, There Are Ways To Fund It
>>
>>
>> It is absolutely astonishing to me that a Federationist would suggest
>> that a blind person short on cash grovel on a street corner with
>> fiddle and tin cup to raise enough money just to buy a smart phone.
>> This is prcisely the type of behavior that reinforces the negative
>> stereotype that is widely held by the general public that many blind
>> people are just a bunch of lazy mendicants who are looking for a handout.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:11 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Ashley Bramlett
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired
>> people, There Are Ways To Fund It
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> good ideas and I was going to recommend that.
>> I know the price for adaptive equipment is high and I'd have more
>> things like a braillle display if it were affordable.
>> I make do with what I have such as my old braille notetaker.
>>
>> However, if you really cannot afford a product and cannot get
>> assistance from family, you can do what you suggested or there are
>> usually assistive tech loans out there.
>> I know virginia has some sort of low interest loan for adaptive tech.
>> And also, there  might be help from NFB national or state affiliates.
>>
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Donahue via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:07 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Peter Donahue
>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired people,
>> There Are Ways To Fund It
>>
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>> There's always Busking, Crowdfunding, Dumpster diving,Network
>> Marketing, and other ways to increase one's income to cover the cost
>> of assistive technology without getting rehab involved. If you want it
>> bad enough you'll find a way to raise funds to buy it. That's what you
>> would need to do if you were sighted. Some of the ideas above even
>> allow you to do a little community service in the process of
>> increasing your income to cover these costs.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Michael Russillo via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:00 PM
>> To: S L Johnson via Electronics-Talk
>> Cc: Michael Russillo
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] FW: Smartphone for visually impaired
>> people
>>
>> Amen to that; the blindness market is a smaller one--I know, I know,
>> that's been hashed over time and again.  We should see if the company
>> has an installment plan to pay for those tech items gradually;
>> alternatively check with NFB for low-interest tech loans; just my 2 cents.
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/2017 3:26 PM, S L Johnson via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> Thanks for this information.  I got excited when I began to read
>>> about a phone that I could use that was a smart phone with real easy
>>> to feel buttons.  Then I got to the price.  Why do all the companies
>>> making products for the blind price them so high that most of us
>>> cannot afford them?  I know you will all say research and development
>>> but the reality is that most blind people, especially retired seniors
>>> who have to live on less than $760 per month, cannot afford it.  I
>>> wish there was some way of making these products more affordable to
>>> all of us.  A smart phone with GPS, OCR scanning and other helpful
>>> apps would be a great help to all blind people but only those with
>>> the financial resources will be able to have it.  The same is true
>>> with the Braille notetakers.  All of these wonderful products will
>>> never be in the hands of most of the blind because of their high
>>> price.  I know it will never change but I wish it would because I
>>> really could use this phone and a new Braille notetaker that is still
>>> supported and up to date instead of used equipment that I can no
>>> longer get repaired by companies who no longer support them.  I
>>> apologize for venting but I am reallyfrustrated!
>>>
>>> Sandra Johnson
>>> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:37 AM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] FW: Smartphone for visually impaired
>>> people
>>>
>>> Some people recently were asking about easy-to-use phones, so I
>>> forward this
>>> ad:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Irie-AT [mailto:sales at irie-at.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:31 AM
>>> Subject: Smartphone for visually impaired people
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>>> d
>>> c7bd81&id=544bdebc61&e=5daf9aa555>
>>> Image removed by sender. SmartVision 2 -the Smartphone for the
>>> visually impaired
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>>> d
>>> c7bd81&id=bbc3dfb59c&e=5daf9aa555>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>>> d
>>> c7bd81&id=71639feb93&e=5daf9aa555>
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>>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>>> d
>>> c7bd81&id=971befe084&e=5daf9aa555>
>>> Image removed by sender. Image of the SmartVision 2 phone menu
>>>
>>>
>>> SmartVision2 isnâ?Tt an app, itâ?Ts an entire Smartphone built from
>>> the ground up. The ergonomics of the device, buttons and keypad are
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